Message Number: YG5548 | New FHL Archives Search

From: Claudia Johnson
Date: 2001-07-15 22:30:00 UTC
Subject: diabetic ferret with adrenal ds has sx on the 18th

Hello,

I have the Smokey who became diabetic and is on insulin (he was diagnosed
with insulinoma 6/2000) and also has adrenal disease. I almost lost him in
March ( his Bg was 600)time and effortto correct BG. He is having sx on the
18th. He's doing well, but I've had 2 emergency surgeries due to the
inability to urinate in my first ferret as a result of adrenal disease and I
feel that I must get him to surgery. His bladder is normal and not painful,
but the urine volume has decreased. He's been on Lupron til he could get to
sx. Has anyone out there had a similar experience? I can't see into the
future and pray that I'm making the right decision. He came into the rescue
last April as a 3 1/2 yr old and didn't adjust well. He's come such a long
way. I guess she will remove some of the pancreas depending upon what she
sees when she goes in. Thanks in advance,

Claudia Johnson
Oxford Ferret Rescue
410-620-6246


>From: Ferret-Health-list@yahoogroups.com Reply-To:
>Ferret-Health-list@yahoogroups.com To: Ferret-Health-list@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Ferret-Health-list] Digest Number 287 Date: 13 Jul 2001 20:37:45
>-0000
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>Ferret-Health-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com To post to the Ferret Health
>List send an email to: Ferret-Health-list@yahoogroups.com
>
>The advice and opinions expressed in this forum are by no means a
>substitute for prompt, hands-on care, from a licensed, practicing
>veterinarian.
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>There are 25 messages in this issue.
>
>Topics in this digest:
>
>1. outer tumur From: I carebear 2. RE: Bo's Helicobacter From: "Joanne
>D'Amico" 3. Re: Question on new ferret From: tamarastanton@y... 4.
>Dr.Williams :Rascal update From: sleepyfalcon@y... 5. RE: Oscar From:
>Celia Doyle 6. Re: Vet's advise please From: "The Divide Homeowners Assoc."
>7. To Sukie/pred after dbl. Adrenal From: JTRADFORD@w... 8. Re: Re:
>Vaccine Reaction From: fhbythesea@a... 9. RE: Re: Osteosarcoma info
>needed From: "Ulrike" 10. Re: ADV Surgery From: Ferretwise 11. Re: ADV
>Surgery From: fhbythesea@a... 12. VET or endocrinologist input needed
>here! Was Re: ADV Surgery From: Sukie Crandall 13. wood pellets for litter?
>From: rappaho@a... 14. Trouble urinating with cardio From: "Linda
>Proulx" 15. Rubbing the injection site to prevent reaction From:
>CandiceBush@a... 16. fish and ferrets From: CandiceBush@a... 17. Bob
>C: Ferret Skeleton: Thoracic Limb From: RRC 18. hind limb weakness From: "-
>Z -" 19. one post adrenal, one on the way? From: sharon allen 20. even just
>giving dosages can be risky From: Katherine Kingsbury 21. Re: RE: Bo's
>Helicobacter From: Russell Prater 22. Re: To Sukie/pred after dbl. Adrenal
>From: Sukie Crandall 23. Re: even just giving dosages can be risky From:
>Sukie Crandall 24. Re: Bob C: Ferret Skeleton: Thoracic Limb From: Sukie
>Crandall 25. 14 wk ferret with abdominal mass From: dschwering@s...
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 1 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:26:25 -0700 (PDT) From: I carebear
>Subject: outer tumur
>
>Both my little ones have a growth on the outer body. I had the one removed
>on the female but the vet would not remove the one on the male due to very
>low sugar level. These growths bleed and drain often. I was wondering if
>anyone has had this problem and if it is going to just keep comming back.
>From what I can see the one that was removed seems to be growing back.
>Thanks. Kay ,, Candy,,, Scampy
>
>
>--------------------------------- Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email
>addresses from Yahoo! Mail - only $35 a year!
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>
>[This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 2 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:14:06 -0400 From: "Joanne D'Amico"
>Subject: RE: Bo's Helicobacter
>
>I wonder if the battle over getting the Pepto into Bo is worth the stress.
>If I might, I'd like to pass along a great thing one of our rescue group
>taught me, which has worked wonderfully well for three of mine, including
>one who was undergoing chemotherapy. Get some Slippery Elm Bark capsules at
>the local Health Food store, open and mix about 1/8 in some water or any
>other liquid Bo likes. It should get ... slippery, like jello before it
>sets. Give it about 30 minutes before a meal, or anytime in between, 3 or 4
>times a day. It soothes and helps "coat" the GI tract, and mine take it as
>is without a fuss.
>
>As for the ulcers and eating, Bo may have ulcers all the way up into his
>esophagus or mouth - even the Flagyl could have upset his stomach. And if
>he is throwing up, the stomach acids could have irritated things as well.
>So try small amounts of soft foods that he likes - maybe wet his normal
>food, or even make a warm mush out of it, adding some Hills A/D, chicken
>baby food, Duck Soup, or (my personal favorite) Bob C's Chicken Gravy. I
>hide the meds in the Duck Soup or Bob C's, too - no fighting, mine scarf it
>down. And it "buffers" the effects of the Flagyl on the GI tract. We have
>weathered ECE, ulcers, chemo, and a host of other crises that way. Best
>wishes for Bo's speedy recovery !!!
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 3 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 02:29:39 -0000 From:
>tamarastanton@y... Subject: Re: Question on new ferret
>
>Apologies if this is a repeat post...I am having a hard time figuring out
>how to do this from my yahoo groups page.
>
>Anyway, we have fortunately not had to deal with fleas, but we do have cuts
>frequently due to a "playful" younger weasel beating up on everyone else
>when they won't play with her. We have had mixed reactions with Neosporin:
>one of our ferrets didn't react well at all and got something akin to a
>sore throat, but another didn't seem to have any reaction at all and we
>know he was licking his wounds. However, what we have found that works even
>better is something called Panalog/Animax ointment, which is (I think)
>prescription only (our vet had it in stock, so maybe it's common). It works
>great and works in just a matter of days...it seems to soak into the skin
>better. Also, it tastes horrible, so our guys are reluctant to lick
>themselves or each other.
>
>Good luck! Tamara, Jeff, and the crew of 7.
>
>
>
>--- In Ferret-Health-list@y..., diwilliams310@a... wrote: > Hello, > > I
>recently adopted a ferret for my 6 month old silver toned male ferret
>Squeaker. Coco is a 1.5 year old light brown sable ferret. Besides being
>the cutest little thing, I have some questions concerning her. First off,
>she has fleas. We noticed that when we got her home, she was constantly
>scratching. I gave them both a bath with just regular ferret shampoo and
>sprayed them with a ferret deodorizer hoping to kill most of them. I
>ordered flea shampoo and flea spray online but I haven't received them yet.
>I know the best solution for fleas is Advantage, but is there anything I
>could do in the meantime? I have a vet appointment for this weekend, but I
>would like to make them as comfortable as possible. Also, I noticed that
>she has little cuts on her neck. I'm assuming its from getting dragged
>around by all the other ferrets she was living with. Can I put neosporin on
>the cuts? If she were to lick some off, would it make her sick? I'm not to
>familiar with ferret breeds, but most o! > f her hair, with the exception o
> > f her tail and back is like peach fuzz. Is that normal for a sable or
>could it be an underlying problem? Squeaker's hair is so soft and long that
>it makes her look ratty. My last question is that when they are playing
>that make this whistle sound. It sounds like they are sucking in air. Is
>this normal? They haven't fought or anything I was just wondering what that
>means. Any help is greatly appreciated. > Thanks! > Dianna
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 4 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 03:00:10 -0000 From:
>sleepyfalcon@y... Subject: Dr.Williams :Rascal update
>
>Hi Dr.Williams I'm sure you read alot of posts or here.So please allow me
>to refresh your memory on Rascal. This post was the last week of May.Rascal
>had gotten out of the house and returned home a few days later with the
>double fractured leg. Maybe you'll remember this I \ I Well I wanted to
>"Thank you" again for your help and tell you that he is doing
>wonderfully.100% better than I expected at the time of prognosis.He can
>again run like the wind,dance with the best of them, and is back to his
>playful self.He is not really walking with a noticeable limp and from what
>I can tell from looking at his leg it isn't much shorter than his good leg.
>I wanted to let you know how he's doing and we both,Rascal and I,wanted to
>"thank you". Fran,Rascal and the rest of the fuzzgang.
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 5 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:10:16 -0400 From: Celia Doyle Subject:
>RE: Oscar
>
>Thanks to those of you that answered my concerns about Oscar (my albino
>with brown spot on his face/fur). In answer to your questions: Yes it seems
>a bit oily; the skin does not seem discolored. The vet has looked in his
>ears and says he does not have ear mites and nothing appears wrong with his
>ears. So it is good to know this shouldn't affect how he feels. Thanks
>again for your responses.
>
>Celia and Oscar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 6 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 22:49:51 -0600 (MDT) From: "The Divide
>Homeowners Assoc." Subject: Re: Vet's advise please
>
>Quoting Stephanie Blue :
>
>I can't speak of Bo's problems but I can tell you that my ferret Oliver was
>put on zantac for nausea, he is on alot of different med's and the zantac
>has helped alot, good luck. Dee and her 7 rescues.
>
>
> > I have the ferret Bo that I recently posted about his improvement, I
>spoke > > too soon. A brief summary: He was diagnosed with Helicobactor 3
>weeks > ago> and put on Amoxi and Flagyl. The flagyl made him vomit and
>caused > unneede> d stress, so the vet put him on chlorphenical. He was on
>that for a week > a> nd the Amoxi for 2 1/2 weeks. I put him on prednisone
>because he was not > i> mproving and I had to force every drop of food down
>him. His appetite was > > getting better, his stool's were mostly formed,
>and his attitude was all > ar> ound better. Tuesday morning he started
>vomiting. He does not do it > every> time I feed him, but when he does it
>is bad. You can literally hear it > ru> mbling up into his esophagus. Until
>yesterday he was on carafate 4 times > a> day. I started giving him Pepcid
>today, hopefully to make a difference. > > I took him into work and took
>x-rays, both a lateral and DV. Two of the > ve> ts looked at the films and
>could not find anything outstanding. I work at > > a cat and dog hospital,
>we do not treat ferrets there and they are not > conf> ident about what
>they see. We talked about either sending the films to > Mis> sion Med Vet,
>or I might make the drive to Kansas State. I cannot do so > un> til next
>week (it is a 2 hour drive). He is still taking the pred (0.4 ml > > BID),
>Pepcid(0.4ml 4 X day), and occassionally Pepto when I can get it > dow> n
>him. The bloodwork and UA the ferret vet ran 3 weeks ago were within > nor>
>mal limits. He has lost so much weight, he is hungry but vomits up most >
>of> what he eats. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. >
>
>--------------------------------------------------- This mail was sent
>through Sopris Webmail http://webmail.sopris.net
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 7 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:43:33 -0700 (PDT) From:
>JTRADFORD@w... Subject: To Sukie/pred after dbl. Adrenal
>
>Hi... Solita had a dbl. cryo surgery 4 months ago.While still on Florinef
>(not sure why) she was weaned OFF pred after 3 weeks...(had Phoenix small
>mammal panel & estrodial taken today) You say pred "forever?" Why? Bruce
>knows she's no longer on it.....[or did,Bless him!!!] Also... Bruisers
>tumor has returned:( ( FHL'S Home Page Poster child,and my baby) We are
>heartbroken....Thinking of chemo &/or radiation,now...comments?? Thanks...
>Love Tara...grabbing at straws:(
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 8 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:42:01 EDT From: fhbythesea@a...
>Subject: Re: Re: Vaccine Reaction
>
>In a message dated 7/13/01 12:40:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>trecianussbaumer@n... writes:
>
><< Just a heads up. One of my ferrets reacts to Fervac.
>
>Injectable Beandryl 30 minutes before DID NOT help him.
>
>The research me and my vet did on VIN.com seems to agree that giving
>Benadryl before hand doesn't help. >>
>
>I do my own vaccinations - since 1994. I've had reactions to Fervac-D,
>before and after beginning protocol of premedication. As it has been
>explained to me, the treatment of benadryl will not prevent a reaction, it
>buys you time. In my case, time to get to a vet.
>
>I made the decision to do my own vaccinations after discussing this with 2
>vet clinics and their doctors. One is my usual vet, the other my
>'emergency' vet - he is located 2 blocks from my house.
>
>My rules for vaccination are: No shots when the clinics aren't open, no
>more than 3 ferrets receive shots at a time, I don't vaccinate sick
>ferrets, no shots given within an hour of the clinic closing, no shots
>given when I have people coming over or a busy schedule and finally, I only
>vaccinate those ferrets in the shelter or my own. I give benadryl orally 30
>minutes before I vaccinate and I watch the ferret for the next hour after.
>My shoes are on, carrier is at the door and keys/purse are on top of the
>carrier. I average about 2 reactions a year, for whatever reason, out of
>the 100 or so ferrets that I see every year. I pay extra to purchase my
>vaccines direct from United and have them shipped overnight to my work
>address (I have a refrigerator) so that they are always cold.
>
>Since the majority are shelter ferrets with unknown history, there is no
>way to track the why this one did and that one didn't. The last two were
>cagemates and one was potentially life-threatening. But I will only use
>Galaxy in the cases of reaction to Fervac. Now that Merial's distemper
>vaccine is coming on the market, I will probably buy that exclusively and
>let my supply of Fervac run out.
>
>Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea" www.ferrethaven.org
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 9 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:55:06 +0100 From: "Ulrike" Subject:
>RE: Re: Osteosarcoma info needed
>
>Hi Stephanie
>
><>causes the hind end weakness and lethargy.>>
>
>His blood glucose is perfect, done that. But the signs are not like you
>would see in an insulinomic ferret, I've seen Jilly and Jack, my
>insulinomic ferrets, off their legs and stumbling but with Tom it's very
>different and also all the time and he just doesn't seem to be able to
>balance or coordinate his movements... :-(
>
>From Ulrike and Jilly, Jack, Bella, Tom, Mason, Baby, Dana, Fox, Reno,
>Rose, Jasmine, Spike, Hobo, Gremlin and Bobby
>
>Missing Angel, Hope, Igor and Barney
>
>West Wales Ferret Welfare E-mail: ferretlove@n...
>http://www.ferretlove.freeserve.co.uk Last update 09/05/01 --- Outgoing
>mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system
>(http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.261 / Virus Database: 131 - Release
>Date: 06/06/2001
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 10 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:48:48 -0400 From: Ferretwise Subject:
>Re: ADV Surgery
>
>
>
>Sukie wrote:
>
> >I thought that Alicia had prior knowledge of the ferret and that left
> >must have already come out completely and she knew that. Certainly,
> >among our's, we've seen Lefts with swollen vulvas, and Rights >without,
>and visa versa through the years. Have not noticed any >reliable pattern
>here; since the effect is systemic no matter which >side is involved, would
>differences in symptoms be possible (other >than ones that reflected
>effects upon the Vena Cava or liver due to >proximity)?
>
>
>
>Good day al!! I believe Sukie , If you and the list readers will check into
>the archives this is stated by none other than FHL's Dr Bruce Williams. It
>has also been the case in multiple cases at the shelter. Right sided or bi-
>lateral involvement which of course means the right adrenal is affected. If
>you read further it is stated that adrenal affected male ferrets with
>prostate complication are also either bi-lateral, or right side affected
>adrenals. I know we have lots of medical information to sort through each
>day-- but this seems a point that should be significant to owners and
>caretakers when considering treatment options.
>
>Alicia and many ferrets at Ferret Wise www.ferretwise.org
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 11 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:22:49 EDT From: fhbythesea@a...
>Subject: Re: ADV Surgery
>
>In a message dated 7/12/01 9:12:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>shurcool@i... writes:
>
><< I have never heard this before! Is this true? Swollen vulva = right
>adrenal??? Very interesting. I would love to hear more. >>
>
>I can't say that I have seen that. I just had another adrenal surgery -
>coincidentally, on a female ferret. Kaya is 6 years old and her only signs
>were the distinctive hairloss around the tail. She was a rightie - and by
>my vets' account, a very difficult one. The last couple before her were all
>boys - Timon and Tigger.
>
>BTW, for those following Timon's story - he is still displaying that mating
>behavior. Thankfully for Pumba, not as much, but Timon still bites, covers
>and well...humps. We have found by placing bitter apple on the back of
>Pumba's neck, it does discourage Timon.
>
>Lisa Leidig, Head Ferret The Ferret Haven "By-the-Sea" www.ferrethaven.org
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 12 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:44:08 -0400 From: Sukie Crandall
>Subject: VET or endocrinologist input needed here! Was Re: ADV Surgery
>
> > >Sukie wrote: > >>I thought that Alicia had prior knowledge of the
>ferret and that left >>must have already come out completely and she knew
>that. Certainly, >>among our's, we've seen Lefts with swollen vulvas, and
>Rights >>without, and visa versa through the years. Have not noticed any
> >>reliable pattern here; since the effect is systemic no matter which
> >>side is involved, would differences in symptoms be possible (other
> >>than ones that reflected effects upon the Vena Cava or liver due to
> >>proximity)? > > > >Good day al!! I believe Sukie , If you and the list
>readers will check >into the archives this is stated by none other than
>FHL's Dr Bruce >Williams. It has also been the case in multiple cases at
>the >shelter. Right sided or bi- lateral involvement which of course means
>the >right adrenal is affected. >If you read further it is stated that
>adrenal affected male ferrets with >prostate complication are also either
>bi-lateral, or right side affected >adrenals. I know we have lots of
>medical information to sort through each >day-- but this seems a point that
>should be significant to owners and >caretakers when considering treatment
>options. > >Alicia >and many ferrets at Ferret Wise >www.ferretwise.org
>
>Looked. Can't find that statement. Found was one in which a left adrenal
>had already been removed with symptoms remaining so the reply was that
>remaining symptoms meant the right had a problem, but if the reply was read
>without reading the attached original letter that wasn't immediately clear.
>Would appreciate knowing which number post it is, so that I can read it.
>
>Certainly, if this is so, it would sometimes make life easier in terms of
>timing how to jump, but I haven't seen it here and I don't see how it would
>be the case biologically. Would appreciate if the vets would educate us all
>on this score. Would be great to have such a sign. Is a swollen vulva
>indicative or more indicative) of an adrenal tumor on the right side rather
>than the left? Are prostate complications more common with right adrenal
>growths? We've had about 50/50 here on that.
>
>Have a question of my own: can type or degree of symptoms indicate that a
>growth is more likely to be seen on both sides rather than be from one very
>active tumor site? (I could see where bilaterals might pump out more
>estrogen than a unilateral of the same size, but don't know if a very
>active single one might manage as much of an effect.)
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 13 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:30:57 EDT From: rappaho@a...
>Subject: wood pellets for litter?
>
>hi all :)
>
>i got asked a question today.... are wood pellets good for using as litter?
>his breeder reccommended it.
>
>kathy. and Bianca
>
>Kathy Rapp - Zephyr Group Scanning, OCR, proofing and reformatting Books to
>disk rappaho@a...
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 14 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:28:58 -0400 From: "Linda Proulx"
>Subject: Trouble urinating with cardio
>
>Hi all. One of my little rescues was diagnosed with Cardiomyopathy on
>Monday. Well after given two Lasix injections he is now showing signs of
>trouble urinating. First it will take him about 2 minutes to actually go.
>He will keep backing up from one corner to the other but will do nothing.
>After urinating he will be completely wiped out. The hair on his tail is
>thin but we are not sure if it is due to adrenal or to the rash on his back
>which will not heal either(ear mites). A skin scrape was done but showed
>nothing. And he has had earmites for a while. We have treated him with
>Eradimite and frontline. Neither have worked. Could I maybe give him a bath
>in something like oatmeal? Any recommendations on this would be great. But
>back to the original part of my post. We have another appointment(second
>this week) with the vet today for the urination trouble. I was wondering if
>any one has had any lucky with Casodex after the prostate problem is there.
>Would it help him without having to have him risk surgery? I am really
>worried about quality not quantity. If the Casodex does/will not work is
>there anything else I can give him? Please ANY ideas at all throw them my
>way. I AM DESPERATE. Thank you all in advance for help.
>
>
>Linda and the furry ones The Dook-N-Dance Ferret Shelter
>anmllvr@g... www.dook-n-dance.org 110 Harbord Drive Midway Park,
>NC 28544
>
>
>[This message contained attachments]
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 15 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:42:12 EDT From: CandiceBush@a...
>Subject: Rubbing the injection site to prevent reaction
>
>
>Dr. Ruth Commented" "Just an anecdotal thing here, with no scientific proof
>to it. I have noticed that ferrets who have the vaccine injection site
>massaged gently for a couple of minutes after the vaccine is given are less
>likely to react. Any one else noticed this?"
>
>Any thoughts as to why this might be? It seems to me that this would speed
>the absorption of the drug and increase the chance of reaction, but you
>can't argue with success! cb
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 16 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:55:18 EDT From: CandiceBush@a...
>Subject: fish and ferrets
>
> >Does anyone else have fish and a ferret. I just want to make sure that >I
>am not going to get a ferret and then it is going to eat my roommates
> >fish. The fish sits on a low coffee table in the living room... so it
> >would be easily assessable for a ferret. Thank you for any advice in
> >advance. Even worse, a ferret can drown, even in small bowl, if he goes
>diving. cb
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 17 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:41:55 -0500 From: RRC Subject: Bob C:
>Ferret Skeleton: Thoracic Limb
>
>Q: "Your post on ferret vertebra was wodnerful! Would you do it for the
>rest of the skeleton?"
>
>You are asking a guy who collects, cleans, identifies (element, species,
>sex, age, taphonomy, pathology), studies, measures, draws, photographs,
>labels, and curates bones to TALK about them? Are you crazy? Do you realize
>what you have caused??!! How about I do it over several days to minimize
>the trauma for those not so interested?
>
>For ease of study, the ferret skeleton can be divided into two major
>categories: the axial and the appendicular skeleton. The axial skeleton is
>composed of all the bones found along the body's axis, which include the
>skull, mandibles, auditory ossicles, teeth, hyoid apparatus, vertebrae,
>ribs and sternebrae. The appendicular skeleton is basically everything
>else, which includes the scapula and clavicle, the os coxae, the bones of
>the thoracic and pelvic limbs, sesamoids, and genital bones. Sometimes
>dermal bones are present, such as in the armadillo, but since ferrets never
>evolved them, they won't be discussed. The sesamoids and genital bones are
>actually part of the heterotrophic skeleton, which are bones that are not
>associated with either the axial or appendicular bones, and include the os
>cordis (a heart bone common in horses, cattle and other large ungulates),
>the os rostrale (a rostral bone common in pigs, occasionally cows, and
>other species), sesamoids (found inside muscle tendons and include the
>patella and the fabella) and the os penis (baculum) and os clitoris.
>However, for THIS discussion, I shall include the heterotrophic bones
>within the appendicular skeleton (just be aware they are heterotrophic, not
>appendicular).
>
>Skeleton brachii: (Synonyms: thoracic limb, pectoral appendage, arm
>skeleton).
>
>Contrary to popular opinion, the ferret has a clavicle! However, it is
>usually cartilage or only partially ossified. It is a rather small (4-8 mm)
>"J"-shaped bone or cartilage rod, and is rarely present in curated
>skeletons (it is usually lost during preparation). If completely or
>partially ossified, then it is clearly visible on X-ray. While it has
>little function in supporting the pelvic girdle (as does the clavicle in
>humans), it does help support muscles in the neck and shoulder (which is
>probably why it has been retained; it acts like a sort of sesamoid bone).
>Clavicles are absent or diminished in carnivores to increase thoracic limb
>mobility. This is very important because it makes it easier for ferrets to
>turn around in tight spaces, allows greater mobility in using the hands and
>arms to obtain food, and increases the arc of movement in the front limb.
>This last reason is very important in a short-limbed creature like the
>ferret because it allows for a greater stride in running. I am unaware of
>pathologies in the ferret clavicle, and have never heard of an instance
>where it has been fractured. (Synonyms: clavicle = clavicula, collarbone).
>
>The scapula supports the thoracic limb, but unlike the pelvis, it is not
>directly connected to the spine. Instead, it is held in place with a series
>of muscles, tendons and ligaments, which allow the scapula to freely move
>with the appendage. This increases stride and arc of movement, both very
>important in short-limbed ferrets. The blade of the scapula is roughly
>shaped like a bee's wing, with a smooth oval area at the small end where it
>connects to the humerus. Scapular bone is very thin in ferrets, and
>sometimes not all areas within the blade are completely ossified. Even
>though the scapula is quite thin, it is typically protected from most
>injury because it is heavily muscled on the top, which protects the bone
>from most fractures. I have only seen a single healed injury on a scapula;
>a healed fracture of the acromion process. However, I often find injuries
>to the scapula in ferrets which died of trauma. I suspect most injuries
>which could seriously damage the scapula are usually terminal for ferrets.
>It is possible cancerous growths could occur in the scapula, but I have
>never seen one. (Synonyms: scapula = shoulder blade, shovel bone).
>
>The humerus in ferrets is fairly stout as a result of heavy neck, shoulder
>and upper arm muscles. I have seen large deltoid tuberosities in whole
>males, but both the male and female ferret humerus show pronounced muscle
>insertion scars. Healed fractures of the humerus seem to be fairly rare in
>ferrets; most I have seen are found in terminal trauma cases. This is
>probably because the energy required to fracture the humerus is sufficient
>to damage the contents of the thoracic cavity and few ferrets survive. In
>the three healed humeri fractures I have studied, all were distal, near the
>condyle. All were displaced spiral fractures which healed well, but
>resulted in some degree of shortening or misalignment of the skeletal
>element. In one, the trochlea was heavily furrowed where the fracture had
>passed through the joint, resulting in massive arthritis and reactive bone.
>In a single case, a bone mass near the deltoid tuberosity was present,
>which was approximately a centimeter in diameter. Quite often, arthritic
>lipping or the formation of bony projections can be found along the edges
>of the head and trochlea in older ferrets, and occasionally you can see
>scoring or furrowing on the articular surfaces of the trochlea. (Synonyms:
>humerus = arm bone, clod bone).
>
>In ferrets, the ulna is large, with a massive olecranon process, which make
>sense considering the amount of digging done by polecats. It has a proximal
>and distal articulation with the radius, and both make up the bones of the
>forearm. Both bones slightly bowed, and are heavily muscled, which gives
>the ferret Popeye forearms. In ferrets, the radius and ulna can easily
>cross over the other, which allows the ferret to turn their hand palm-side
>up. This allows the ferret great flexibility in manipulating prey, digging,
>climbing, and making mischief, and makes their wrist and hand bones
>structurally similar to bears, raccoons and humans. I have found a large
>number of healed fractures of the radius, ulna or both in pet ferrets,
>which are probably a result of being stepped on or having their arm caught
>in a door. I have hypothesized that vets can identify radioulnar injuries
>caused by a ferret being stepped on as opposed to those from a swinging
>door by the following criteria: Stepping injuries = ulna and/or radius
>broken midarm to distal with force progressing from cranial to caudal; door
>injuries = ulna and/or radius broken randomly with mediolateral force. In
>three cases, the fractured radius and ulna fused together. In another case,
>the proximal radius healed as it if was amputated and the distal portion
>fused to the ulna. Arthritic lipping is common in older ferrets along the
>proximal articular surfaces of both bones. Sometimes furrowing or scoring
>is present on the proximal articular surfaces. On rare occasion, reactive
>bone is seen at the elbow joint, usually on the olecranon. I have not seen
>a cancerous growth in the ulna or radius, but suppose it is possible.
>(Synonyms: ulna = elbow bone, funny bone; radius = radial bone)
>
>The ferret has seven carpal bones and one sesamoid bone in the wrist, and
>they are arranged like most other carnivores (PROXIMAL ROW: SCAPHOLUNATE =
>os scapholunatum, os carpi intermedioradiale, radiointermediate, radial
>carpal; TRIQUETRUM = os triquetrum, ulnar carpal, os carpi ulnare,
>triangular, cuneiform; PISIFORM = accessory carpal, os carpi accessorium,
>os pisiforme. DISTAL ROW: TRAPEZIUM = C1, 1st carpal, os trapezium, os
>carpale I; TRAPEZOID = C2, 2nd carpal, os trapezoideum, os carpale II;
>CAPITATE = C3, 3rd carpal, os capitatum, os carpale III, magnum; HAMATE =
>C4, 4th carpal, os hamatum, os carpale IV. Medial Sesamoid = os sesamoideum
>medialis). I have seen two fractures of the ferret carpus; both resulted in
>extensive fusion and formation of reactive bone tissue. The bones form
>distinctive shapes and can be identified from each other, BUT, those shapes
>have a moderate amount of variability, so identification from position is
>preferable (especially of the distal carpals). Sometimes two (or on rare
>occasions, three) are naturally fused together. Signs of arthritis on the
>bones are rare, even in older ferrets. Again, I have never seen a cancerous
>growth in the wrist bones, but it is possible I suppose. (Synonyms: carpal
>bones = ossa carpi, wrist bones).
>
>The ferret has five metacarpals in their palm, with two (rarely 3) palmar
>sesamoids. The metacarpals are numbered from 1 to 5, starting at the thumb
>(1st metacarpal, MC1, os metacarpale I). I have seen a lot of healed
>fractures of the metacarpals, as well as a lot of reactive bone. In several
>cases, two metacarpals have fused together midshaft. In another case, three
>metacarpals have fused at the proximal end. There are two small sesamoids
>between each metacarpal and first phalanx, which are on rare occasion fused
>to the metacarpal (or the 1st phalanx). Signs of infection are not common,
>but not rare either. I have never seen a cancerous growth, but assume it
>can occur. (Synonyms: metacarpus = hand bones, ossa metacarpalia, pastern
>bones, rays).
>
>The ferret has the same number of finger bones as humans; 2 on the thumb
>and 3 on each finger; the third one is compressed mediolaterally to form
>the support for the claw. The phalanx closest to the metacarpal is the
>proximal phalanx (= P1, 1st phalanx, phalanx proximalis, os compedale). The
>middle bone is the medial phalanx (= P2, 2nd phalanx, phalanx media, os
>coronale, middle phalanx). The third bone, the one with the claw, is the
>distal phalanx (= P3, 3rd phalanx, phalanx distalis, os unguiculare,
>terminal phalanx, ungual bone). "First phalanx" means the first bone past
>the metacarpal, but which one? There are various ways to distinguish this,
>but I prefer "first phalanx third metacarpal." (= P1MC3, first phalanx
>third ray). Ray is commonly used as a synonym for metacarpal (or
>metatarsal), but I find the use of metacarpal allows immediate knowledge of
>the exact location (if you say "right 1st phalanx, third ray", is it the
>hand or foot?). The proximal and medial phalanges are very similar in form
>to humans, bear and raccoon, because the ferret, unlike the dog or cat,
>walks on the entire foot (plantigrade). The distal phalanges support the
>claws, and are modified with a large ungual crest. You can see this part of
>the bone when the claw is torn off; it is the pink "quick" you see from the
>side, through the claw (bone is VERY vascular, and tiny blood vessels run
>under the bottom of the crest, which is why toe clipping can be used to get
>blood samples). Technically, the claw is the horny "fingernail" and the
>bone is the distal phalanx; the phalanx is NOT the claw, but supports it. A
>pair of sesamoids are found between each metacarpal and the proximal
>phalanx, and on occasion, some tiny ones can be found between the proximal
>and medial phalanx. I have seen a lot of broken and healed toes, lots of
>reactive bone, and lots of minor arthritis. I have never seen a bone tumor.
>(Synonyms: phalanges = finger bones).
>
>Overall, I would say the most common pathologies (in order) are healed
>fractures, arthritis, and reactive bone (generally results from infections
>or inflammations). I have seen very few bone masses (tumors/cancers) in the
>thoracic limb skeleton.
>
>Bob C
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 18 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:17:45 -0000 From: "- Z -" Subject:
>hind limb weakness
>
>I'm curious about something-- we know that hind limb weakness is
>symptomatic of a number of things in ferrets. But what really causes the
>hind limb weakness? Is it muscular deterioration, nerve damage, loss of
>bone density, or ?? ?
>
>I ask because I wonder if there's any kind of physical therapy that can
>help hold the weakness at bay. I know that because it is a symptom of other
>things, it can't be "cured." I'm just hoping there's a way to help preserve
>Amelia's mobility as her insulinoma progresses-- she's still fine on
>carpet, but I'm seeing more sliding on wood floors now, and her
>hindquarters are starting to slant downwards more than they ought. Stairs,
>which are bare wood in our house, are utterly out of the quetion. If doing
>any kind of exercises with her would help give her rear end more muscular
>support, I would gladly do that with her.
>
>On a cheerier note, my post has given me the mental image of an aerobics
>for senior ferrets class, with some poor harried instructor trying to get a
>couple dozen set-in-their-ways elderly ferrets to follow along with the
>routine :-)
>
>Regina
>
>
>Regina Harrison regina_z@h... or regina@c...
>
>Gossamer into Spiderweb: new, moved, and mightily improved:
>http://www.channel1.com/users/regina/~gossamer.html
>
>nothing but future ruins the material for the next layer
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 19 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:40:13 -0700 (PDT) From: sharon allen
>Subject: one post adrenal, one on the way?
>
>My almost 4 year old male sable Toby came through adrenal surgery last
>month with flying colors. It was his left adrenal, all is healing, and his
>fur is starting to come back and quickly, too. Now I am seeing that his
>cagemate, Lucy, is starting to thin at the nape of her neck the way Toby
>did! I can see the wrinkles of her nape the way I first noticed Toby. Am I
>losing my mind, or could this be happening again; and to his cagemate? Are
>there any studies on this? Also, Lucy has insulinoma; if she is adrenal,
>what complications can the surgery do? Thank you all in advance.
>
>Sharon
>
>__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get
>personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 20 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 07:32:35 -0700 (PDT) From: Katherine
>Kingsbury Subject: even just giving dosages can be risky
>
>Encouraging the average pet owner to treat their animals themselves without
>a veterinarian's advice can be deadly for the animal. A lot of people don't
>understand that antibiotics don't kill viruses. I've seen many parvo
>puppies come in on the brink of death because their owners put off taking
>the dog in. They had been giving them pepto bismol and antibiotics at home
>waiting for the animal to improve. The same is true for ferrets. Many
>illnesses can be fixed much more easily in the early stages before
>dehydration may set in.
>
>I know it's different for rehabbers and shelter operators. After years of
>experience, they've pretty much seen it all. In my opinion, I don't think a
>public list is the place to share drug dosages and courses of treatments
>without the animals first being diagnosed by a veterinarian who has
>actually seen the animal. How can someone on the list be sure all the
>symptoms were acurately described? It's also easy to say "adrenal" when
>someone describes hair loss, but this could also be from fleas...without
>all the facts, a pet owner could be scared of losing their ferret to
>surgery or complications when all they really needed was flea control.
>
>Just my opinion,
>
>Katherine
>
>__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get
>personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail
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>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 21 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 08:59:46 -0500 From: Russell Prater
>Subject: Re: RE: Bo's Helicobacter
>
>Joanne D'Amico wrote: > > I wonder if the battle over getting the Pepto
>into Bo is worth the > stress. If I might, I'd like to pass along a great
>thing one of our > rescue group taught me, which has worked wonderfully
>well for three of > mine, including one who was undergoing chemotherapy.
>Get some Slippery > Elm Bark capsules at the local Health Food store, open
>and mix about
>
>I'm not much on herbals, so I'll leave the slippery elm bark to you, but I
>definitely agree that Pepto isn't so great. The stress caused by trying to
>get it in them may be cause more problems than the Pepto cures. Personally,
>I like Carafate for tummy troubles.
>
>I am not a vet.
>
>--
>Russ, Booger, Bonnie & Clyde russellprater@w...
>
>URA Redneck if you've ever heckled during a eulogy.
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 22 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:15:49 -0400 From: Sukie Crandall
>Subject: Re: To Sukie/pred after dbl. Adrenal
>
> >Hi... >Solita had a dbl. cryo surgery 4 months ago.While still on
>Florinef (not >sure why) she was weaned OFF pred after 3 weeks...(had
>Phoenix small >mammal panel & estrodial taken today) >You say pred
>"forever?" Why? Bruce knows she's no longer on it.....[or >did,Bless
>him!!!] >Also... Bruisers tumor has returned:( >( FHL'S Home Page Poster
>child,and my baby) We are >heartbroken....Thinking of chemo &/or
>radiation,now...comments?? >Thanks... >Love >Tara...grabbing at straws:(
>
>Pred and Florinef (or an alternative which begins with a "P" but which name
>I forget right now) forever with a COMPLETE double adrenalectomy. That's
>the essential qualification. Many, many times some adrenal tissue remains
>even with bilateral surgery (as has happened with our Seven of Six, but not
>with our Ashling). It doesn't take a lot remaining to replace the needed
>adrenal products.
>
>Nothing for you to worry about; if she's got a bit of retained tissue so is
>doing well without it ( a situation which is not unusual) then that's just
>easier for all. Ask Ashling whenever I give her Pediapred! :-) She really
>hates the stuff but she thrives on those two meds and still regularly
>climbs well over our heads. Boss weasel, that's little girl Ling-ling...
>Okay, that was repetitious since Ling-ling means "little girl" *IF* I
>recall right; when she is too scheming or too bossy she is called
>"Asher-dancer".
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 23 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:34:14 -0400 From: Sukie Crandall
>Subject: Re: even just giving dosages can be risky
>
>You have fine points, Katherine, but at some level we have to each trust in
>each other to use careful and good common sense.
>
>If a person who wants to reply is replying from the webpage then the
>poster's addy is not necessarily known; that means either posting
>immediately if time is limited or the problem seems like it needs immediate
>reply, or waiting to see a digest for the address if that is the format
>used. (Some use individual mails from the site and some use mainly the
>website for reading.)
>
>Ultimately, many things just come down to having to assume that others here
>have good sense and will use it. It is made obvious over and over again
>that this list is not a substitute for medical care; it's used in
>conjunction with medical care, and utilized to learn beforehand so as to be
>better able to help ferrets later.
>
>
>
> >Encouraging the average pet owner to treat their >animals themselves
>without a veterinarian's advice can >be deadly for the animal. A lot of
>people don't >understand that antibiotics don't kill viruses. I've >seen
>many parvo puppies come in on the brink of death >because their owners put
>off taking the dog in. They >had been giving them pepto bismol and
>antibiotics at >home waiting for the animal to improve. The same is >true
>for ferrets. Many illnesses can be fixed much >more easily in the early
>stages before dehydration may >set in. > >I know it's different for
>rehabbers and shelter >operators. After years of experience, they've pretty
> >much seen it all. In my opinion, I don't think a >public list is the
>place to share drug dosages and >courses of treatments without the animals
>first being >diagnosed by a veterinarian who has actually seen the >animal.
>How can someone on the list be sure all the >symptoms were acurately
>described? It's also easy to >say "adrenal" when someone describes hair
>loss, but >this could also be from fleas...without all the facts, >a pet
>owner could be scared of losing their ferret to >surgery or complications
>when all they really needed >was flea control. > >Just my opinion, >
> >Katherine
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 24 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:25:14 -0400 From: Sukie Crandall
>Subject: Re: Bob C: Ferret Skeleton: Thoracic Limb
>
>Bob, great post!
>
>You would have found Scooter's hand interesting before he had his two
>amputations. For the last few years he has had only his pollex and second
>digit on that hand and is happy as a clam this way.
>
>At first it was not known if he had a hand which had been damaged by a
>novice mother, and that was thought to be the most likely cause. Surgeries
>indicated that it may more likely have been a deformity series. He had
>multiple digits within the same skin glove, but the amazing thing was a
>twisty very thin semi-hard tissue growth (without sensation and much more
>flexible than a claw) that erupted through his skin, finally resulting in
>infection, and was trimmed whenever claws were done. On the second surgery
>it was found that he had a distal phalanx lying right smack-dab along the
>other phalanges of that digit -- progressing proximally instead of
>distally. They were touching and had no skin between; don't know if there
>was any other soft tissue between.
>
>Scoot's not the most robust of individuals except in general build, but how
>much of that is his being a natural couch-potato we have to exercise
>one-on-one, and how much may be due to further malformations remains
>unknown at this time.
>
>There's nothing in him so far anywhere near as extensive as Ruffle's many
>deformities of hard and soft tissue, but you and Dr. Williams know how
>unusual she was. (This was the little girl who, when she passed away, had
>about 6 or so separate fatal things all happen at once as well as multiple
>other growths, the one with misplaces major blood vessels, extreme
>intellectual and social impairment, asthma, malformations and proportion
>problems, etc. who lived to 6 years old though no one expected her to last
>so long or so happily.)
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>Message: 25 Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:59:01 -0000 From:
>dschwering@s... Subject: 14 wk ferret with abdominal mass
>
>The pet store next door to my office gave me a ferret yesterday. They
>noticed a mass in her belly and didn't feel comfortable selling her. I took
>her to our local vet today. She was very nice and admitted that she has
>very little ferret experience. She had a book on exotic animals she
>referred to. The only suggestion she came up with is that possibly this
>little girl is pregnant. ("She feels just like a pregnant cat.") Now, the
>odds don't seem very good for that, she's very young and not only she but
>one of her cage mates would have to have not been fixed. We ended up with a
>wait and see for a few weeks. The vet seems to be open to learning. She
>suggested an x- ray, but is there any other tests we should do? She is
>eating good, pooping and peeing normally and is running and playing
>normally too.
>
>Thanks for any advice you can provide.
>
>Debbie S.
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________________________________________
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
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>
>
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