From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2002-05-17 14:28:00 UTC
Subject: a melatonin search for Warp
As some folks here know we have an 8 year old ferret who is not a
surgical candidate and has two very serious problems: a friable small
intestine from a suspected unusual auto-immune problem and
insulinoma. She also has a R adrenal neoplasum. Warp has almost
died in two past surgeries and is not a surgical candidate; in fact,
her vets specifically asked that we rule out opening her up again --
a very unusual request from them. Her insulinoma meds (Prednisone
and Proglycem) are pegged after about a year of care but dietary
sugar added on top of them is holding her well despite her advanced
disease. Usually her quality of life is still high.
Her most recent Lupron shot worked for helping with some aspects but
is failing to work for her accelerating fur loss. Obviously, this is
in the noise but in case she may be more comfy with added fur I
decided to do an FHL
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ferret-Health-list/message
archive search on melatonin and will be later also reading in my
copies of _PDR for Nutritional Supplements_ and other resources.
Simply increasing time of full darkness to increase her body's own
production of melatonin is not cutting it at this point. Tried it.
What I need to find out:
Would other effects of melatonin be counterindicated in her situation?
Dosing.
Downsides.
Sources that have not panned out to be duds.
etc...
This is a convenient grouping of just a little of the information I
found here at the FHL, looking specifically for posts by folks with
knowledge, experience, or both. Obviously, there may be new
information, or i may miss things, so if you have something helpful
to say, please, please, please do so.
Message 12251:
If it has been a year since her left adrenal gland was
removed, and she is still having adrenal signs then it is
likely that her right adrenal gland is the problem.
Since she is just 3 years old then surgery is the first choice.
Lupron and/or melatonin can be used to treat adrenal gland disease.
Melatonin is "the natural product" that can be used in either the tablet
form or liquid form (1mg once a day about 8-9 hours after sunrise),
or in the injectable (mink) implant form (every 4 months). The vets
down at Texas A&M and I have just started a project with the injectable
implants. So far the only side effect is lethargy for the first few days.
It is to early to comment about results; however, today I rechecked one
that is 3.5 weeks post melatonin implant. Lots of new "peach fuzz."
Hope that answers your question,
Jerry Murray, DVM
PS If your girl has had a swollen vulva for the past year then it is time
to do a CBC to check for anemia.
Message 12038:
It sounds like your ferret is starting to show signs
of low blood sugar (ie insulinoma). The first step is to
have Belle's blood sugar checked. If it is low then it is
time to start treating her with either surgery or medically.
No, the pediapred will not cause a problem with her right
adrenal gland, but the itchy skin and hair loss sounds like
she may have adrenal gland disease in her right adrenal gland now.
Thus it is time to consider surgey to remove her right adrenal gland
or to treat her medically (Lupron, melatonin). If she is a healthy 5.5
years old then surgery is the way to go. You can take the right adrenal
gland out and part of her pancreas out at the same time.
Hope that helps,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 11364:
Yes, a small percent of females with chronic
adrenal gland disease will develop anemia,
secondary to the high estrogen level. Just like
intact females that stay in heat for too long.
Most of these girls will also have an enlarged vulva.
Unfortunately epogen does not seem to help with
this kind of anemia. Aggressive treatment with surgery
or high doses of Lupron (maybe with melatonin) are
needed to treat this. Just another reason to treat adrenal
gland disease as soon as possible.
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 11340:
Yes it is the hormones (estrogens) that causes the
swollen vulva, just like an intact female in heat. Quite
often you will get a bacterial vaginal/vulva infection. Usually
you see a mucoid discharge. Most of these do not progress
to a bladder infection but that is possible. Usually keeping the
vulva clean prevents further problems, but a topical antibiotic
ointment (neosporin) and an oral antibiotic (amoxi drops, clavamox
drops, or Baytril) may be necessary in some cases. Yes,
melatonin may cause sleepiness during the first 7-10 days.
After the ferret gets used to it the activity level increases again.
You are not the only one who has trouble giving a tablet daily,
that is why we are looking into the melatonin implants. Plus the
constant release may work better than the once a day tablet.
Good luck with Sassy,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 10900
... The Melatonin has to be given every day. The
liquid Melatonin from GNC is about $10 for a 60 ml bottle (2.5 mg/ml) that
lasts almost 5 months. It has a citrus flavor that some like, others don't.
I give 1 mg/kg of the Melatonin, once an evening. I know some people say
that it should be given 8 hours after sunrise (I believe that's the
recommendation) but have not found that the timing is critical. It took over
a month to notice any relief from symptoms in one ferret; about a month with
another; nearly 2 months in another. All eventually regrew their hair; their
skin returned to normal...
Dick B.
Message 10264:
In addition to the tablets Dr. Murray mentioned, I have also seen 3mg powder
mini-capsules from Twinlabs, and a 1mg per ml liquid from Liquid Solutions.
The Twinlabs caps also contain gelatin, starches, cellulose, and a few other
"carrier" ingredients. The liquid contains alcohol...
Roger
Message 10260:
You are right-giving 4 mls would be tough.
Melatonin comes in 1 mg and 3 mg tablets, and
they are OTC. Most stores (GNC, Wal-Mart, etc)
carry the tablet form. You can crush the 1 mg
tablet and mix with a small amount of Ferrretone
or food to give once a day, or use the 3mg tablet to mix
with ferrettone or food (A/D, baby food) for a 3 day supply.
I would recommend the 1 mg tab, so you are giving
the right amount per day. On the other hand if you
have 3+ ferrets that you will be medicating then the
3mg tablet is a little better cost wise.
Again I suggest giving it 8-9 hours after sunrise to
help mimic fall/winter photoperiods.
Hope to post more info on the injectable mink implant soon.
Hope that helps,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 9845:
The photoperiods are important for intact ferrets
and for ferrets that have been spayed or neutered.
For intact ferrets the photoperiod is what controls
the breeding season. In the springtime as the days
become longer (ie.more light) the melatonin level
is decreased. Ferrets shed, put on their summer
coat, and lose some weight. Plus the breeding
season starts. In the fall as the days become shorter
(ie less light and more darkness) the melatonin level is
increased. Ferrets shed, put on their thick winter coat,
and gain their winter weight. Plus the breeding season
ends.
Now for pet ferrets that have been spayed/neutered, the
photoperiod is also important. The adrenal glands are
"acting like ovaries or testicles" because they have LH
receptors on them. Thus if they are kept indoors with
artificial lights on at night time, they are being kept in
"long day" photoperiods (like spring/summer time). This
stimulates the adrenal glands. With chronic stimulation
the adrenal glands produce the sex hormones, and this
may cause adrenal gland disease with time. Unfortunately
most pet ferrets are spayed/neutered at an early age,
kept indoors under "long day" photoperiods, and are at
risk for adrenal gland disease.
Keeping your ferrets in a fall/winter like photoperiod
(8-10 hours of light,14-16 hours of dark) may help prevent
the stimulation to the adrenal glands and adrenal gland problems.
Treatment with melatonin simulates a fall/winter photoperiod
which causes a decrease in the LH levels which stops the
stimulation to the adrenal glands. This in turn stops the
overproduction of the sex hormones by the adrenal glands.
So the big picture is to keep your ferrets in a dark room
at night time! Try to keep them in the dark just like they would
be if outdoors during the fall/winter time!
Hope that answers your question,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 9665:
The problem with the mink melatonin implant is it
nonabsorbable. Thus when you inject it, it stays there
forever. The implant last for about 4 months so you would
have to give it 2-3 times a year. After a while you would have
a lot of these "rice sized" implants under the skin. That MAY
cause a problem (inflammation that develops into a granuloma
or into a tumor). That is why the company in Wisconsin (Consulting
Services) is working on an absorbable melatonin implant for ferrets.
In the mean time, the male mink melatonin implant can be used.
Also Wildlife Pharmaceuticals in Colorado is working on a GnRH
analog (similar to Lupron) to would be a long lasting implant or
injection for ferrets. Hopefully we will have these available sometime
in 2002! Hope that clears up the confusion.
Happy New Year,
Jerry Murray, DVM
Message 9872:
I have been buying Melatonin in 3 mg capsules and I divide each one
into 1 mg dosages which I then mix with 12" of nutrical and give it
to them at 2:00 PM daily. Every one of my little guys that are
suspected of having adrenal problems have been on their best behavior
(less antagonistic) and after a few weeks their hair comes growing
back (usually the guard hair first) but it the hair loss is acute it
is sometimes not the same color it was before they lost it. After 5
to 6 weeks the vulva starts decreasing in size (if it's a female) and
in two months you would never know there was a problem. We use this
treatment in our geriatric crowd as well as with lupron treatment. It
should not be used in place of surgery except when an operation is
out of the question.
Cheryl and Steve
Message 9239:
Sorry to hear you having problems with the right adrenal gland.
Yes you can give melatonin and Lupron at the same time.
At this years Exotic Pet Conference at Texas A&M, they
actually suggested using both at the same time.
I recommend 1mg/kg orally about 8-9 hours after sunrise.
This helps to stimulate "winter like" photoperiods
(ie 15-16 hours of darkness) which lowers GnRH, LH,
and FSH levels. Which in turn stops the stimulation to the
adrenal gland via the LH receptors. The folks at A&M are
using just 0.5mg/ferret once a day orally. Their dose is
based on the University of Wisconsin study (Paul-Murphy,J
and O'Brien R. Melatonin use in ferret adrenal gland disease.
Proceedings of North American Veterinary Conference, 2001,
Orlando, FL, page 897). Yes, you can use melatonin tablets
or capsules or have a pharmacy mix it with a flavored liquid
to make a suspension. The big side effect with melatonin is
lethargy for the first couple of days. The good news is it is
a low cost medication that does seem to help.
Yes there is also a mink melatonin injectable implant that
slowly releases it over a 4 month time period. Hopefully
they will an absorbable melatonin implant for ferrets soon.
Hope that helps,
Jerry Murray, DVM
PS as for the itchy skin you can use Relief Shampoo with
Resisoothe or Resicort conditioner weekly. You can also
add Omega-3 fish oil (3V Skin Caps liquid) to the food.
The itchy skin should resolve once the adrenal gland disease
is under control.
Obviously, there are plenty more posts in the archives on this topic,
but these seem to serve my needs (though I'll likely look later for
more on sources that folks have found effective -- given that there
can be a lot of variation in largely unregulated supplements, and
would appreciate new or added info beyond this.