From:
Aielwen@aol.com
Date: 2003-02-06 11:32:29 UTC
Subject: Elderly ferrets, health, and a raw diet? LONG
To: ferrethealth@smartgroups.com
Message-ID: <1ea.125fa92.2b73a1cd@aol.com>
Hello,
My name is Merri and I'm new to the list. My husband and I have two
ferrets, Todd, a nine year-old Marshall Farms ferret, and Runt, a ten
year-old rescue of indeterminate breeding. We've owned Todd his entire life
and Runt since she was three. They've been fed either premium catfood (ie
Iams or Nutro cat) or ferret food (Totally Ferret) most of their adult lives.
Runt was diagnosed with Insulinoma 1 1/2 years ago, and, until recently,
that was it for health problems in either ferret.
I have two things I'm interested in learning more about. Both ferrets
were vaccinated yearly for distemper and rabies until 1999. We lived in
Hawaii from January 98 until February 01. A friend cared for the ferrets
during that time and, as far as I know, she did not have them vaccinated even
though I requested it and had an account open at a local vet. We got them
back when we moved to the mainland and I was/am worried about vaccinating
them due to their age. I know that distemper is highly contagious and fatal,
but I feel it's a risk to vaccinate them because the vaccine itself is
modified-live which might adversely affect decreased immune system
functioning that seems to be more of a problem in older animals (ug, bad
sentence structure, sorry). I've been doing a bit of research on cats and
dogs and have found that more vets are recommending titer values be done in
lieu of vaccinating on a yearly basis. My dog vet has my dog on a three-year
shot schedule. Does anyone know of any research in ferrets that shows they
NEED to be vaccinated on a yearly basis or is there a longer antibody
response shown by titering? Is it necessary to restart vaccinating at this
point or am I just too late with regards to their age? Also, I should
mention that the ferrets have been in a ferret illegal state since 1997 and
only get 'out' on vet visits.
Okay, on to the next thing. Although they were old and crusty (and
thin) when we got them back two years ago, other than the insulinoma, which
I've controlled basically by monitoring Runt's attitude and administering
ferret-vite as needed, they've had no health problems until this year. We
put them on Iam's Senior as soon as we got back in 2001. Last spring, Runt's
rectum prolapsed. Although a purse-string stitch was recommended at first by
my previous vet if it didn't resolve, I was able to get the prolapse reduced
sufficiently using dextrose, Panalog, and regular doses of ferret-vite to
'lube' her. This September, after a very scary hypoglycemic incident, she
dehydrated rapidly and required an ER visit. Because I am a college student
who funds her own education, I am not able to afford to have a great deal of
vet work done. The vet ended up giving her Sub-Q fluids, a physical exam,
and antibiotics. She also found a splengioma/splenomegaly (?? can't remember
the exact word, just that her spleen was enlarged) and said it was a possible
indicator of adrenal disease. Runt also has had a slowly balding rat tail
over the last 6 or so months and her fur has not been that great since we
returned. I asked about skin turgidity tests for checking hydration and the
vet said that even if she were sufficiently hydrated, her skin wouldn't be as
elastic as it would be if she were younger. Runt pulled out of her
whatever-it-was within 48 hours.
Shortly after this, I changed their diet to California Natural Chicken
and Rice which has 6 main ingredients, chicken, chicken meal, brown rice,
chicken fat, sunflower oil, and flaxseed. I noticed their coats got a bit
better and, since then, other than hypoglycemic events, Runt has been
relatively normal. Todd, OTH, had had no health problems AT ALL (good for a
Marshall Farms ferret, I've heard) until a week after this Christmas. He got
very sick and became emaciated very quickly. We thought it may have been a
tooth abscess since their teeth are pretty worn out and his breath was bad.
We had just moved so I called a new vet who was reported to have geriatric
ferret experience and got the soonest appointment I could three days later.
I kept Todd going through the weekend with ferret-vite, straight chicken baby
food, and oral fluids. At the appointment, I spent more money than I had to
have a complete blood and organ work-up done. The vet checked his mouth and
couldn't find any abscessed tooth. I had accidently poked him back in the
molar area with my feeding syringe during that weekend and was rewarded with
a fair amount of bloody pus. She said his breath smelled uretic (? or
something like that) indicating problems with his kidneys. I though it
smelled like a rotten tooth. She also said that the jaw ratcheting that Todd
and Runt have been doing occasionally for at least a year might indicate
dehydration as it does in elderly cats. Does anyone know if this is true?
She said she'd never heard it in ferrets, just in cats. I wrote down his
values after the labwork came back, but I can't find them now so am having to
pull them from memory. She said he was very dehydrated despite getting
fluids orally and gave him sub-Q fluids. I may have not been giving him
enough to assist his kidneys, but this vet also said phooey about what the
other vet said regarding skin elasticity in older ferrets. I had been
judging Todd's turgidity against Runt's and his was poorer, but she said he
was more dehydrated than I thought even though she really couldn't tell me
how to judge his turgidity specifically. His PCV was a bit low, WBC and RBC
were fine, he was hypoglycemic, his kidney values were all basically poor
except one, BUN I think. Creatinine was poor. She was surprised by his
liver values, most of which were poor and one was REALLY bad. I wish I could
remember which one it was. She said it basically indicated that he was
dying. She recommended daily sub-Q long-term, a course of Baytril, milk
thistle, some sort of supplement made from Colostrum, a liver medication of
which name I cannot remember now, and Science Diet A/D. I was interested in
getting lactated ringer, the milk thistle, and the colostrum supplement which
turned out to be $55 more dollars than I had. I told her that I though A/D
was crap (corn flour will just make his kidneys work harder and he is super
intolerant to milk of which casein is a milk protein). I would try to find
another diet alternative than chicken baby food and ferret-vite which is
obviously nutritionally incomplete. I also started to think very seriously
about euthanasia, but no matter how hard I tried and no matter how bleak
Todd's outlook was, it just didn't seem right. I figured I'd just take it a
day at a time and see what happened.
Previously to this, neither of my ferrets were even remotely
interested in wet food. I did try baby food with them a number of years ago
and don't remember them being interested then either. I had been feeding
Todd the chicken baby food which he was taking a bit less reluctantly
although not enthusiastically, but the store ran out on one visit so I
brought home turkey instead. Todd liked this much better and I tried it on
Runt who ate it with no urging at all. Last fall I had moved my dog to a raw
diet (Bones And Raw Food - BARF) after seeing the difference it made in my
sister's elderly boxer. I found out my petstore carries a commercial BARF
called Steve's Natural Food for Cats so I picked up a bag in addition to some
Wellness canned cat food. I figured that although I couldn't afford 55
bucks, six for a two pound bag of raw diet wouldn't kill me. I mixed some
gruel up for both ferrets, 1/2 Steve's, 1/4 turkey baby food, 1/4 Wellness
canned with some water. Both took to it, Runt acted like she hadn't been fed
in days. I gradually moved them over about a week and a half to primarily
the Steve's with a bit of turkey for flavoring and a bit of water 2-3X/day.
They also have free access to the California Natural to help with plaque
problems although their teeth are pretty ugly as it is.
My little weasels dive into the raw food with gusto and have now been
on it for almost four weeks. Runt's blood sugar episodes have dropped in
frequency from at least three significant incidents per week to TWO during
the last three weeks. Her previous lack of muscle tone (due to age and
possible adrenal disease) has lessened and her bloated/pot belly are gone.
Her abdomen feels like it should and it seems as if her spleen is a bit
smaller (cause I check it on a regular basis). She is very alert and
energetic not like I've seen in awhile. Her backbone, loin, and above her
hips feel less bony. Runt still has the rat tail typical of adrenal disease
so I'm monitoring that to see where it goes.
Todd is drinking less (wet BARF probably helps) and has lost his
jaundiced look. He went from being emaciated three weeks ago back to his
normal weight now and his muscle tone is returning. His energy is also
fantastic. I haven't had them out for an extended period of time during the
last 4-5 days. They were out about an hour tonight before both ran out of
gas, but holy cow were they cruisin' during that hour! I haven't seen them
this busy in at least a year. Todd actually was feeling frisky enough to
bite one of our cats on the back of her neck! He doesn't look like he's on
his last legs anymore. I monitor, as best I can, their hydration and both
ferrets' feet are pink and soft where they were yellowish and dry before.
Their eyes are bright and skin elasticity seems good, a little better than it
was. This diet also seems to have done something for their arthritis because
they're moving better.
For my own part, I am astounded at the change in both of them. I know
they are getting close to the end of their lives on this earth and that their
bodies breaking down is inevitable, but even if they both crash and die
tomorrow, I know the quality of their lives has significantly improved.
Neither one of them are on medication that vets suggested they needed in
order to live ie: prednisone, liver medication. I wonder how many ferret
chronic health problems are diet-induced even with ferret designed kibble or
premium cat kibble. I know that BARF'ing our carnivorous pets is becoming
more popular and I thought I might share what BARF has done for my own
ferrets. I also wanted to know if there were any posters to this group who
have elderly ferrets or are BARF'ing their ferrets or even thinking about it.
I would also like to find a veterinarian in the Bay Area or Sacramento who
REALLY is knowledgeable about ferrets, especially geriatric ones. In all the
years I've owned these guys, only one vet, Dr. Wolchinsky from Rocky Gorge
Animal Hospital in MD, seemed to me to be completely confident about treating
ferrets. All of the other vets (and there have been good ones) seem to have
an air of hesitation that I'm just not comfortable with. I've done a fair
amount of looking already and haven't found somebody that I feel has the
experience I'd like with old ferrets (not just 'geriatric' three and four
year olds).
I would like to find out if anyone knows about giving milk thistle to
ferrets and if I could get it in ferret dosage from someplace rather than a
vet's office where I'd be looking at a markup. What else might help them
that would be simple and easy to acquire? At this point, I don't think Todd
needs Sub-Q, but I really want to find someone who can look at both him and
Runt and say yes, this is normal for an old ferret or no he needs fluids
daily, not two or more conflicting opinions on what physical condition an
older ferret should be in. For example, Todd has a shaved forearm right now,
is it more accurate to do a turgidity test on his forearm (which snaps back
immediately) or above his shoulder blades (which takes about 1 sec)? I am
saving my pennies for this vet. I am also open to other peoples' experience
and expertise. I would like to hear from people who have had ferrets this
old and what works for them versus what doesn't. I frankly am surprised that
mine have lived this long. I've always been told 5 or 6, 8 years at most is
a ferret's lifespan. I am no longer thinking of euthanization, I couldn't
even consider it now. I truly appreciate any advice, comments etc. I'm here
to learn.
thank you,
merri
"He prayeth well, who loveth well
Both man and bird and beast.
He prayeth best, who loveth best
All things both great and small"
-Samuel Taylor Coleridge