From:
sukiec@optonline.net
Date: 2004-07-09 17:02:35 UTC
Subject: Re: cystine bladder stones (protein)
To: ferrethealth@smartgroups.com
Message-ID: <7287489.1089392555153.JavaMail.root@thallium.smartgroups.com>
I have ask about the urine pH levels on them. Keep forgetting to ask. As you can guess we've had our hands full and after having had several who needed shift sleeping over a matter of months my schedule is entirely upside down so that cuts down on possible comminication time by phone. (Anyone need a night worker? ;-).)
The vets involved have all mentioned that they think that the foods we had for the one with very bad IBD (Sherman) may be involved. As it is those foods didn't help him anyway, so those foods aren't available to anyone now which actually makes him very happy because he loves (adores, worships, literally prostates himself before) Marshalls food (I know, I know, fish oil plus IBD doesn't make for good odors at all, but he is happy and being a little guy who had so much medically against him it's good to see him having every bit of fun he can.
It's all new to the vets (treating and consulting) mostly, but, yes, all of the vets involved so far currently are really wondering about the foods as the cause and all have mentioned that on their own straight off.
Cystine stones are vanishingly rare in U.S. ferrets (I am still hoping from some feedback from Britain to learn details of some mentions from there, even the most basics like if the stones even were cystine stones.). So, with a handful of cases in the past it really struck everyone as totally weird that we would have two ferrets within weeks of each other during a time when there was so much accessible protein they could access:
z/d (which is already broken down into amino acids),
IVD's Duck and Pea food,
the original Pretty Bird (their test version that was before the potato
and some of a newer test version one from them (which I am not sure if the ferrets were eating) which is also broken down though I don't know if as broken down as the z/d,
babyfood,
and a/d
There is always the chance that we beat the odds in a bad way and have two with urinary tract problems that led to the stones due to being unable to process cystine properly. Beating the odds happens all of the time, just to a very few individuals. For instance, ferrets react to vaccines. They are the exceptions by a wide margin, but it happens. In this case, though we are talking about something seen in an incredibly small number of ferrets though and here we've seen it twice in a short time frame. Could it happen? Yes, it could. I could also win the Big Money Lottery. The odds absolutely stink and I could bury everything we've ever made into that lottery without realizing a dime, but there is also that vanishingly small chance of one ticket bought and winning. You know that, though.
One clarification: Hilbert had a congenital bladder malformation and his stones were lost due to a flushing malfunction of the machine involved, so it is always possible that he had a different type of stone, and that we beat the odds in a different very rare way and have two with different urinary tract problems (both extremely rare) at the same time.
Either way, the outcome stinks.
So, I guess the vets are talking about the possible mechanism you wrote to me about privately where there may be more amino acids in the plasma than can be absorbed. (BTW, a respected urologist -- for humans -- who is friend was familiar with that postulated mechanism and did not discount it.)
The only way to know for sure appears to be to wait to see if there are stones reoccurring. Thank goodness for the FHL membership because now we know what meds to use and how to use them should they be needed.
It's a topic on which one heck of a lot more needs to be learned, but that isn't exactly an unusual position to be in with ferrets.