Message Number: SG9538 | New FHL Archives Search
From: sukie crandall
Date: 2004-07-12 17:23:59 UTC
Subject: cystine uroliths: asking specialists, next courses of action,
To: ferrethealth@smartgroups.com, ferret-list@cunyvm.cuny.edu
options before us
Message-id: <433A08D4-D428-11D8-9650-000A95CD182C@optonline.net>

I am now getting contrasting opinions from some vets I both respect and
like. Awkward position to be in. Part of that is just because as of a
few years ago still cystine stones are something which isn't as well
known as would be needed to fill in the blanks. What IS well known is
that there is a type of genetic predisposition in some individuals of
other species who get cystine uroliths, and that some of the
individuals who have that predisposition get these rare uroliths but
some don't. So, even in the studied species there were some holes in
knowledge a few years ago which means I need really recent info.

Obviously, I'd much rather than goofed myself than be dealing with a
genetic flaw here. It's a lot easier emotionally to kick myself in the
butt for a while and move past the mistake than it is to have them have
a lasting problem such as a genetic flaw. But they could have a
genetic flaw, or flaws, and some of the vets think that is probable --
that we just beat the odds in a very bad way. Even though it is a
scary thought we've got to take it into account while recalling that
some vets want to be sure that the diet they had access to didn't
create a problem, or that both factors combined tipped the scales.

So, here is what I plan to do, and here are the things we are
discussing as options.

First: I have been given one specialist's name (Thank you!) and I have
searched out the names and emails of some research specialists on
urology, uroliths, and even cystine stones in members of Carnivora
specifically, and I have a few more people I want to track down. I
plan to ask them directly. That way I'll get the very latest info even
if not published, and by asking several I might find out about
someone's work in progress for ferrets if that exists. I DO realize
that it is always possible that ferrets can differ from other species,
and I well recall the confusion such differences caused when such huge
discoveries as mast cell tumors not carrying the malignancy risk of
other species, of the pancreas of ferrets being okay to operate on, and
of adrenal growths in ferrets being hyperestrogenic rather than
Cushings each hit the fan. One difference we have found personally is
that ferrets can behave like they do with intestinal blockages when
they have uroliths in the bladder. Still, we will most likely have to
deal with what is know in dogs as probably the closest living relative
to be well studied in this regard and then work from there. I WILL ask
them if I can post their letters and if any give me permission I will
share those letters verbatim.

Our vet will return later this week. Hilbert's reoccurrence of
bladder bleeding has been brought under control and we'll hopefully
have culture results by then. We have to discuss the option or
x-raying Whizbang and Sherman to see if they, too, may have stones.
Hopefully, they do not. If they do then that would make it pretty well
obvious that ferrets differ a lot more from dogs than expected. Two in
one household after 23 years with ferrets and none having stones is a
hard way to learn fast. The main reason for doing that, though, is
because if they show stones we can start them on the meds and hopefully
dissolve the stones rather than risking their health by leaving them
unattended, or going with surgery (though if they have stones we may
need to have the surgery again).

We will be getting urine strips and if possible doing daily urinary pH
runs on the ferrets; with this problem we need to do the opposite of
the usual stone response and need to make the urine alkaline. We're
also trying to figure out if we should just start the meds or wait to
see if there is a reoccurrence. Obviously, we already changed their
diet. If the problem is genetic this much of change might not be
enough and they might need food which is either extremely low in
cystine or extremely low what is called the COLA group of amino acids
(cystine, ornithine, lysine, and arginine) (Many thanks for that
info!), or meds (Policitra-K and Tiopronin), or both. Meds may
actually be more viable than an extreme food type given their need for
socializing but we may be able to work it out to do both.

This is anything but fun. I love to learn, but not this way.