From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2007-05-14 17:05:41 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: commercial vs home made foods
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
Dogs are more omnivorous than ferrets, but even
then a diet that is ideal for a dog is not the same
diet that is the human ideal (and some studies on
overweight -- a category I am in -- and obese in
the U.S. indicate that only about 20 to 25 percent
of U.S. Americans eat a healthy diet *at most*).
The human ideal and the ferret ideal are more
different yet.
Most veterinary nutritionists (but not all, for
example:
http://www.mspca.org/docs/REMILLARD.pdf )
do wind up working for pet food companies.
Let's face it, most people who bother to get
doctorates in a topic wind up working the same
or related fields. One thing i have never understood
is why in the on-line animal community that is
considered fine for biologists, fine for organic
chemists, fine for veterinarians, yet somehow
when discussing people who work their tails off
getting doctorates in veterinary nutrition people
somehow automatically assume the worst.
True, when the veterinary nutritionists are not
the owners of the company they sometimes have
their expert opinions overturned by bean-counters,
but that happens in any field. Heck, my husband was
an inventor; do you have any idea how often bean
counters shoot down what they say (and later privately
slap themselves upside the head when someone else
licenses the patent, or when they didn't patent and
some later independently develops the same thing also
in detail)? The nutrition experts in veterinary diet are
often not the final choice makers, but they ARE the
experts and things would be a lot worse if they did not
work in the field in which they have gotten their
education.
The fact of the matter is that when Steve and I needed
instructions years ago for making an at-home diet for a
ferret who had unusual medical considerations there
were veterinary nutritionists, both a self-employed one
and one working for a major dog supplement company
of that time, who provided the needed expert help.
The comments below are NOT about Vicki, but I think that
a sadly rich history of such posts in the animal internet
helped lead to portions to posts like some of the
statements made by Vicki and others because with
repetition the arguments ate their way into people's
memories without challenge. I think that Vicki had them
eat their way into her memory. Having been correctly shot
down in the past because they did the same to me, I figure
that hearing from someone who has been in the same spot
could be useful.
I have heard a few people who do not have degrees in
nutrition argue that we should not listen to comments
about nutrition from veterinary nutritionists who have
spent many years studying their specialty and doing
independent research that holds up to peer challenge
because aside from minority who work for universities,
museums, and zoos most wind up working for veterinary
supplement and pet food companies. The argument is
that they are making income so do not have or state
private opinions. (Compare to any other industry: does
your plumber have private opinions that conflict with the
employer, does your postal delivery person, do you?)
That leads the makers of the argument to swing things
around to imply that therefore information from people who
have NOT studied the field in depth and thoroughly is
somehow more reputable than that of people who have
an undergraduate education and then often 5 or more
post-graduate years cumulated by having their own work
challenged by degreed experts in the field who were not
their own professors and needing to meet that challenge.
Think about it; those people are saying, "If you make income
at what you study then your opinions can't be trusted, so the
opinions of people who have not studied this discipline and
who have not met the challenges of proven experts in this
field must be more reliable.
It doesn't add up. Yes, the implication that experts in veterinary
nutrition can't be trusted gets repeated a lot and it eats its way into
into people's memories specifically because it gets repeated a lot
without people breaking down the logical conclusion of the
argument. Frankly, I have to worry about the reasons people
who have not studied the field in the first place would use that
as an argument.
Those tend to be the same people from whom I have heard that
vets don't study much nutrition and I have to confess that I
personally did not challenge that statement, and at one point
I repeated it here, and boy did I get shot down by a number of vets
(most privately) who HAD studied nutrition a good amount. That
was rightfully done, too! I deserved it for just accepting that
statement without challenge.
So, Vicki, the position you are in with my reply is the same position
I was in with their replies and it all adds up to these:
"When someone makes a statement instead of just accepting it, be
sure to verify, verify, verify." and "When someone presents an
argument that pivots on undermining the foundation of proven
experts then take the person's stance to it's conclusion in your
mind and see if that conclusion is a logical one, or if it is an
illogical
but self-serving one."
Now we have something else in common; you and i both made the
mistake of accepting the same argument that we should have
challenged, Vicki. What do you want to bet that we have a lot of
company on the FHL who are thinking more about it now?
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
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