From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2007-06-16 14:39:26 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Food question Innova Evo Ferret
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
You know, while there are often a lot of warnings of periodontal=20
disease, especially in diet discussions, there are very few posts=20
from people who have actually encountered it in their ferrets.
In our 26 years with ferrets in our family we have had only one who=20
showed indications of moving into it and that was only when she had=20
been on a soft diet for a prolonged time, which was unavoidable give=20
her condition. Soft diets HAVE been very clearly demonstrated by=20
careful study with good challenges to be a cause of gum disease.
No other diet has. There are hypotheses, of course, but what is=20
needed are real studies and real challenges by real experts. Until=20
then the hypotheses might or might not hold water.
There also are diseases themselves which have routes thought which=20
they could cause gum disease and vice versa. It is important to not=20
forget that we can be talking about a two-way street.
The only broken or cracked teeth we have encountered were from when=20
ferrets tried chewing on metal.
That isn't to say that others' experiences over the decades won't=20
differ from ours in an assortment of ways and degrees.
There is no diet choice which does not have its detractors and its=20
supporters. There is no diet choice which does not have founded and=20
unfounded statements made about it in each direction. Those, and the=20
lack of clear proofs for so many assertions are why food discussions=20
so often get out of hand.
In a recent issue of Ferrets magazine Danee DeVore tackled the topic=20
in a clear and balanced fashion. Those who would like to read more=20
will find it interesting.
Here are some URLs of references. The articles in the petdiet site=20
need to be purchased but they are by a professional who is both a=20
veterinarian and also has a doctorate in nutrition. I've read two=20
and plan to buy some others because I learned a great deal. Some of=20
what I read supported what I've previously concluded and some did=20
not, so it was a very enlightening experience all around.
A note about tea tree oil which has been mentioned as being in some=20
pet tooth pastes: tea tree oil and lavender oil are both under study=20
since one study showed both to be estrogenic and antiandrogenic, so=20
given the marrow, prostate and other problems ferrets have a history=20
of encountering with things like adrenal disease tea tree oil might=20
have cautions.
There are enough past posts on diets and their upsides and downsides=20
to glut anyone in
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
and
http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/archives/ferret-search.html
Here are some URLs by veterinary experts addressing dental and gum=20
disease in ferrets since the mismatch between our own experience and=20
warnings given is the topic which led into my posting in the first=20
place (and you can find more with web searches). If they are by=20
vets, periodontal experts, etc. I am not reading them till later=20
myself when they are ones I haven't encountered. Some of the pdfs I=20
simply can not read on-line because they become too fuzzy when=20
increased in size so those I am hoping will be useful for list=20
members. If they get across that this is an area still under=20
investigation about which absolutes should not be stated then I=20
managed to achieve something reasonable.
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/dental/dentaldz.htm
http://www.2ndchance.info/ferretteeth.htm
http://www.dentalvet.com/vets/ferrets/ferret_dentistry.htm
http://www.heidihoefer.com/pages/ferrets/geriatric_ferret.htm
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=3DA&A=3D477&S=3D5
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=3D11&cat=3D1284&articleid=3D574
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/FHL1105
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YPG562
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG15102
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG14602
(There are many more!)
with immunosuppression:
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1111/j.1600-051X.
1994.tb00312.x?journalCode=3Dcpe
In a general search this came up from the Google Book search feature=20
with similar info as in the vet sites already mentioned:
_Handbook of Laboratory Animal Science_ By Jann Hau, Gerald L. Van=20
Hoosier
So did
_The 5-Minute Veterinary Consult: Ferret and Rabbit_ By Barbara L.=20
Oglesbee
I already know that _Biology and Diseases of the Ferret_ (James Fox)=20
mentions soft food as a documented cause of periodontal disease,=20
while saying that kibble is a far safer choice.
http://jdr.iadrjournals.org/cgi/reprint/50/2/194.pdf
In http://www.sciencedirect.com look for pieces like
> Advances in diagnosis and treatment of small exotic mammal dental=20
> disease
>
> DrMedVet, BVSc, MMedVet, Dip.AVDC, Dip.ECVSFrank J.M. Verstraete
----------
> , a
> aDepartment of Surgical and Radiological Sciences, School of=20
> Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis USA
>
> Available online 31 May 2006
There are a great number of ferret specific dental in relation to=20
diet, and even skull shape in relation to diet studies by Dr. He.=20=20
Here is the abstracts for just one. More can be found in
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
which also has other dental and periodontal study abstracts, some=20
with links to full articles. The abstracts are often about induced=20
disease due to neural alterations, testing new dental repair=20
processes and materials, gum changes secondary to certain meds, etc.
(Abstracts can be legally shared without copyright violations since=20
that is part of their purpose.)
> Swed Dent J Suppl. 2004;(165):1-72.
>
> Craniofacial morphology and growth in the ferret: effects from=20
> alteration of masticatory function.
>
> He T.
> Department of Orthodontics Faculty of Odontology, Sahlgrenska=20
> Academy, G=F4teborg University, Sweden.
> INTRODUCTION: Our hypothesis is that any effects on craniofacial=20
> growth and morphology induced by altering the masticatory function=20
> will vary according to the species involved. The general aim of=20
> this thesis was to test the possible effects of altering the=20
> masticatory function on craniofacial growth and morphology, as well=20
> as features of masticatory muscles in ferrets. To better elucidate=20
> these mechanisms involved, the anatomy of the skull, craniofacial=20
> growth pattern and development of occlusion in the ferret were=20
> investigated to serve as baseline data. MATERIALS AND METHODS: The=20
> description of the anatomy and the radiographic features of the=20
> skull was based on observations of 100 skulls of adult ferrets of=20
> both sexes. The craniofacial growth pattern was studied in 16 young=20
> ferrets of both sexes using serial cephalograms taken on 5=20
> occasions according to age: 25 days, 35 days, 55 days, 80 days and=20
> 300 days. To follow the development of occlusion, these animals=20
> underwent dental examinations every other day. Forty male ferrets=20
> were divided into two groups from the age of 5 weeks. One group was=20
> fed hard pellets (hard-diet group), and the other the same diet but=20
> softened with water (soft-diet group). After six months, specimens=20
> of masticatory muscles were dissected and analysed histochemically,=20
> and cephalograms were analysed cephalometrically. RESULTS: The=20
> ferret skull is relatively elongated with a short facial region,=20
> being longer and broader in males than in females. The viscero- and=20
> neurocranium follow an orderly pattern of expansive growth. The=20
> growth of the mandible is mainly characterized by an=20
> anteroposterior body elongation, and enlargement of the coronoid=20
> process. Craniofacial growth in ferrets ceases earlier in female=20
> than in male animals. The deciduous teeth erupted between the 19th=20
> and 31st postnatal day, and exfoliated approximately between days=20
> 51 and 76. The time of eruption of the permanent teeth ranged from=20
> 42 to 77 days. The female ferrets were generally ahead of the males=20
> regarding the eruption age of permanent teeth. The alteration of=20
> the masticatory function by feeding the animals a soft diet caused=20
> a hard palate plane more distant from the cranial base plane,=20
> smaller inter-frontal and inter-parietal widths, and a slenderer=20
> zygomatic arch, as well as a generally shorter and narrower=20
> coronoid process. Variations of most variables are greater in=20
> animals fed on soft diet. The mean cross-sectional area of type I=20
> and type II fibres in the temporalis and the masseter, and type II=20
> fibres in the digastricus, as well as the number of capillaries per=20
> fibre were significantly smaller in the soft-diet animals.=20
> CONCLUSION: Altered masticatory function has induced changes in=20
> masticatory muscles and certain effects on craniofacial growth in=20
> ferrets. These changes are not the same as those reported in other=20
> species (e.g. rats). It appears that reduced masticatory function=20
> leads to smaller fibres in the elevators and transverse skull=20
> dimensions. The different effects are presumably related to the=20
> differences in craniofacial anatomy and growth pattern, as well as=20
> the masticatory system, in the various species studied previously.
> PMID: 15224640 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
Some other refs:
Kibble comparison charts and homemade food:
http://members.tripod.com/~Ferret_Luv/foodchart.html
http://www.ohioferret.org/INFO/nutri.asp
http://home.att.net/%7Eferretfriendsofpgh/foodchart.htm
Bob's Gravy:
http://www.trifl.org/gravy.shtml
Professional consultation on balancing homemade diets with articles=20
by Dr. Rebecca Remillard, Ph.D., D.V.M., DACVN:
http://www.petdiets.com/
http://www.petdiets.com/Library/category.asp
FDA raw pet foods guidance:
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/Guidance/Guide122.pdf
http://www.fda.gov/cvm/CVM_Updates/rawdiet.htm
Increased meat digestibility from cooking:
http://exploratorium.edu/cooking/meat/INT-what-is-meat.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/tv_and_radio/fullonfood_meat.shtml
http://forums.egullet.com/index.php?showtopic=3D40548
In this world hypotheses abound and what makes them acceptable as=20
well enough demonstrated is not faith in them because science is not=20
religion, what makes acceptable as well enough demonstrated is not=20
shouting loudest because science is not an argument, what makes them=20
acceptable as well enough demonstrated is not being able to give the=20
most swaying speech because science is not politics, and what makes=20
them acceptable as well enough demonstrated is not popularity because=20
science is not secondary school homecoming.
What makes hypotheses acceptable as well enough demonstrated to no=20
longer be merely hypotheses is a chain of studies careful enough to=20
appear in juried journals. The chain of studies need to=20
independently demonstrate and confirm each essential portion, meeting=20
challenges, filling gaps, showing that alternative explanations are=20
not the right ones. It is long, and laborious, and as careful as=20
helping a toddler down a flight of stairs, but like the toddler it=20
gets there and when it does it has solidly arrived.
No one needs to feel guilty about making a choice which does not fit=20
with the beliefs, yelling or debates of others when there is not=20
solid evidence based upon such studies showing that your own choice=20
is clearly bad.
Make your own choices. Just make sure of two things:
1. that you know that medical downsides of each so that you can=20
respond when or if something goes wrong
and
2. that it is balanced for nutrients. To manage that you may use=20
kibble like we do, use whole prey like Shirley does, or do a=20
combination.
It's entirely your own choice. Learn the bad with the good and know=20
that each choice has both. Then make up your own mind and read new=20
info as it becomes available. Then RELAX!
One more thing: know that you may need to adjust diets for some=20
medical problems.
Okay, I guess that is pretty comprehensive with anyone being able to=20
learn more or just read more opinions, and find more links in the=20
suggested places from a range of people with varied opinions.
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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