From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2007-07-04 15:50:27 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Problems with the kits
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
While there are perhaps other possibilities it does sound most like
you are encountering problems that are either genetic or nutritional.
It is not unusual to find multiple deformations together. One of the
things Steve and I used to do when we could afford to have ferrets
with extreme needs was to take in ones with deformations and we
certainly ran into ones with simultaneous problems. In one case the
underlying cause (neural crest genetic variations) can itse;f cause
widely spread problems but the other had some many things that no
oone was ever sure how much went wrong.
In the case of your kits too little calcium, too little D (which can
alternatively cause problems with too much, too) or too much
phosphorus have to be considered. With kits one cause can happen
from going to meats too rapidly. The thing about meats is they are
high in phosphorous which the body needs BUT they lack calcium in
reasonable levels. The saying in medicine is "As goes phosphorous so
goes calcium. This is because bodies need calcium to uptake and
process phosphorous. If it isn't in the diet it is stolen from
bones. Baby bones don't have much calcium at all. (BTW, this is
also why those who are prone to osteoporosis are told to be careful
and avoid some soda pops because some have high phosphorous levels.)
Nutritionally, you would wonder about rickets or nutritional
hyperparathyroidism.
If you are seeing what I think you might be seeing, though, then
there is little surprise that the vets don't know about it. There is
a rare genetic condition which causes the ferret kits to be called
""Swimmer kittens" for the way that they have to move. It has been
investigated and described by John Lewington, and described by G.
Smith in the South Australian Ferret News. Your vets can find
information in pages 105 - 107 of the NEW vet text, _Ferret
Husbandry, Medicine and Surgery, second edition_ by John Lewington,
publisher Saunders Elsevier. When being investigated both over-
feeding before good bone formation had taken place and the
nutritional causes mentioned above were among the things considered
and eliminated. Deaths were then occurring, too. The ferrets also
became hunched with the necks disappearing in some, with the ribcages
collapsing neither the hearts nor lungs can work right. Let's see:
they used Animalac with added calcium, and in one case also added
sardines to the diet. Physiotherapy (PT) in warm water was done.
As an FHL moderator I am going to forward your letter to that text
author because if I recall right there is more known since the text
went to publication so perhaps he can give needed info for your
vets. (I am lacking time to search in a different location and I
don't know what has gone to publication yet, plus I want to be sure
that I am not merging 2 different conditions that are under
investigation in my head.)
I also advise that you post to Ferret-Genetics:
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
You wrote:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/message/3187
> Writting here is probably one of my last chances to understand what
> is happening to my ferrets, in case I get any help from you.
>
> Starting with the beginning, I bred my female ferret some time ago
> and she had 10 wonderful kits (7 like her, with common ferret design
> and 3 albinos). They all grew up pretty hard, meaning that they
> started to walk a bit late and with difficulty. Initially, I thought
> it happened like that because they were so many and poor Bijou (the
> mother) couldn't handle it. She even had a calcium breakdown at some
> point...
>
> After they started walking, I noticed that all the albinos had
> problems with their legs. I made Xrays and apparently they suffered
> from rickets. Their bones practically bent, broke under their own
> weight and welded in a wrong position (it's amazing, the bones
> looked like halfmoons..). One of the them, Pif, is the worst. He can
> barely move, not to mention walking ...
>
> The vet performed surgeries on their bones yesterday. They are all
> cut now, with canes in their thighbones. I don't even want to
> imagine the suffering they go through, but I just feel I have to try
> everything in order to offer them a better life. I just cannot put
> them down, even though, if this fails too...I don't know what I am
> going to do...
>
> As if this was not enough, when I returned from the vet yesterday,
> one of the other kits died. He just screamed in an strange way, his
> gums and tongue turned white, and in less than a minute, died. I
> didn't even have time to react, this is what bothers me the most. I
> tried what I knew from my poor experience: massage on the belly and
> heart area, even mouth to mouth breathing. I just couldnt do
> anything for poor Teddy :(. After performing an authopsy, the vet
> told me he suffered from a heart congenital malformation. I franckly
> doubt that, I think it must have been a respiratory failure, but
> unfortunatelly there are no vets in this country who know how to
> deal with ferrets. Some of them even told me they are rodents, so
> you can imagine how 'vast' is their knowledge in these animals.
>
> I dont trust them and I am sure that these animals would have been
> in a much better shape if somebody had known what to do from the
> very beginning. 100 vet, 100 opinions. And radically different.
>
> I noticed this morning that another female kit (one of the albinos)
> have a swelling on her back, right bellow the shoulder blade. It's
> of hard consistency and it doesn't move. I am afraid it could be a
> tumour or who knows what else. The vet cannot say for sure...
>
> You cannot imagine my disappointment and sadness. They are 3 months
> old and they went through so many things when they should be happily
> playing without any health problems. At least at this age. I gave
> them vitamins and the diet is so close to their natural feeding, as
> ferret processed food cannot be found here.
>
> The vet told me now to give them Ca, Mg, B1 vitamins. I am not sure
> if this is right too. Please, I need some help from you people. You
> have much more experience with this kind of animal, because it's a
> largely spread pet over there. Have you ever encountered a similar
> case? Could it be a genetic problem? (the parents are not
> relatives). What can you tell me about the swelling on the back (the
> spine)?
>
> Any advice could help me in this moment. Thank you and sorry for my
> poor English.
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
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