From:
"Sukie Crandall"
Date: 2007-07-06 15:20:42 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Narcotic future "Problems with the kits
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
For those who may have missed the WHYS of this treatment approach:
1. Limiting the fat on the kits helps their bones have less weight to try to lift until the
bones are stronger so it reduces bending and breaking. You WANT these kits to be thin
until their bones are strong enough for them to be able to handle more weight. (That is
also why even over-feeding of kits has caused bone problems.)
2. Reducing the meat portion of the diet reduces phosphorus intake. The reason for this
is that to process phosphorus (a mineral that is in high levels in meat), the body needs to
use an equivalent amount of calcium. If that calcium can not come from the diet (since
meat is very lacking in many minerals including calcium) then the body grabs the calcium
from where it can -- it robs the babies' newly forming bones and dental buds which
simply don't have enough to spare. So, the bones wind up bendable, and weak, even easy
to snap.
3. Upping the calcium and perhaps the D used to process it or maybe even having a bit of
sun exposure each day for the kits to help create some D that way if there if furred skin
can manage that-- under careful veterinary guidance because this is a serious condition
and you don't want to worsen things -- provides the replacement calcium so sorely
needed.
4. Meanwhile, you want to slowly move the bones into better positions that allow better
motion and less strain while increasing the soft tissue support of those bones. That is
what the physiotherapy is about. Bone malformations don't move just bones into bad
positions. They can move muscles, ligaments and tendons into ones where they can't
perform their usual motions, and can result in stretching of ligaments and tendons which
can worsen instability. Walking wrong also can cause unusual forms of wear on joints,
pressure on tender areas, poor neural feedback (poor propriception -- a word I never can
spell right for some reason) and more.
Has anyone tried progressive casting or external bracing for these limbs? That is one of
the current approach for some forms of human clubfeet and it has been having fine
success. There are still the infant and toddler braces some of which are the same as 50+
years ago used, too -- in fact, a new and more design which increases the mobility of the
child and eases the care by the parent has been recently introduced. Extremely long term
success from those bracing methods exists and the newer approaches that also involve
casting look to be even better, so perhaps something similar could be tried in veterinary
medicine when limbs need to be moved into better configurations which improve quality
of life. Once upon a time all sort of surgical approaches were tried for clubfeet, and for
some of those who have the worst cases they are still needed, yet these days both for tiny
patients and for older ones whose problems can return under certain conditions, PT and
bracing is still the better and less intrusive approach when the condition if flexible
enough.
Re: the cases I have heard about in the U.S. have typically involved too early and too
thorough a switch to meats in the diet with nursing decreased too much, so the kits were
taking in much more phosphorus (from the meats) and much less calcium (from the milk).
Re: Levels of adrenal disease and insulinoma:
They seem to vary extremely widely among homes. I suspect that part of this is going to
turn out to be genetic, with people who prefer certain looks having more. Then again, I
readily admit that even though Dr. Johnson-Delaney has announced in an adrenal disease
paper that so far Dr. Michelle Hawkins et al at UC Davis have found one form of genetic
vulnerability (MEN genetics, Multiple Endocrinological Neoplasia genetics) in ferrets I do
not know if there are any external markers for that, and I don't know if other genetics
variations will have any bearing. Still, 20+ years ago before there were many fancies out
there the report of both adrenal disease and insulinoma in U.S. ferrets were fewer in
proportion and people just did not hear of early cases. I have asked vet who were
practicing then if they also found the rates of those two endocrinological diseases to be
lower then and have been told that they did, and recently in a pers com Dr. Karen
Rosenthal volunteered that observation. Yet, there were some things the same (early
neuters, though not as early since the competition among farms had not yet driven the
typical sale age to below 8 weeks, typical diet being kibbles, etc.) and some home style
things different (for instance, the equipment lights which are on such a wide array of
things did not exist then so there would not have been so many ways to reduce natural
melatonin production). I guess that my point is that while there are high reports of
endocrinological disease in some U.S. homes, there are others where it is far less common,
and that it is important to remember some factors (changed and unchanged) which may
outwardly seem peripheral though may not be that need to be considered.
--- In ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com, "lewingtonjohn" <jhlewing@...> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I have heard from Sukie that you have had extreme stress with
> kittens developing the "Swimmers' condition. Geoff Smith has been
> describing this condition and i had some early contact with it.
> The material in my book Ferret Husbandry, Medicine and Surgery (FHMS)
> shows what it is and what can be done. Nutritional and genetic causes
> are on the table for discussion.
> I have indicated my treatment with reducing protein and upping the
> calcium intake which worked. Basically, to chose an old saying, one
> had to be cruel to be kind in some respects. Starving the kits and
> getting them into hydrobathing, physical movement of legs plus
> pushing thelegs under the body may seem to violent but it can get
> results.
> Having ten kittens affected is a horror story.
> I assume the writer is a breeder. Are the jills kept inside or
> outside? Are they fed seperatly?
> The affected kittens are best fed seperately.In fact all kittens
> should be fed seperatly to check on weight change.
> Talking about Australian ferrets i recall seeing an Italian ferret
> breeder with a jill and 13 kittens. Not in a good setup.The jill was
> a skeleton but active as hell and all the six week old kittens were
> thin but active.I got one of the kittens and it went okay on my
> feeding ideas.
> Once the jill had got rid of the kittens, ie sold off, she went back
> to her normal weight. Everything goes for the kittens.
>
> Note in my FHMS the feeding of jill ferrets/kittens is seperate from
> feeding adult ferrets. The idea was to fed the jill ferret adequately
> and the kittens adequately so that the body skeleton is considered
> first and the flesh weight, if you like, is added later but not to
> excess. Emphasis on mineral/vitamin intake plus basic protein, fat
> intake. Talking in general terms
> This is explained in the text.
> I cannot say what indivual ferret breeders in the USA are feeding
> but we could spend all day arguing about it. Commercial diets etc.
>
> Personally, i am amazed to hear that the affected kittens were
> getting surgery on their bones at a young age for "Swimmers"
> I'm sure everybody means well but how wide spread is the practice?
> In fact how many "swimmers" does one see in USA ferrets?
>
> I wrote the first edition of FHMS in 2000 as i was concerned with
> reports of the high incidence of Adrenal Disease and Insulinoma in
> USA...
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