From:
"Sukie Crandall"
Date: 2007-10-21 18:00:01 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Vaccines...
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
Have you had any vaccines yourself recently enough to
notice symptoms afterward in yourself?
Well, I have; just had my killed-virus influenza vaccine
shot this last week and felt like garbage for 3 days, even
threw up the first night. Believe it or not, that is part of
the normal response which indicates that the vaccine is
working. Luckily, I knew that. Since I do go into
anaphylactic shock from some other things I also knew it
apart from that, though vomiting can happen with either.
The symptoms were from my immune system flaring up
because it recognized the vaccine as an invader. When a
person is ill many of the symptoms are from the action of
the immune system itself. In fact, in some illnesses, such
as DIM/Myofasciitis the dangerous symptoms are from the
immune system cytokine storm. Allergies are not the only
thing that can cause the immune system to become more
active than we'd prefer at times. Had the vaccine caused an
allergic reaction in me my blood pressure would have gone
down, my mucus membranes would have swollen (including
those in my respiratory tract and GI tract), I would have lost
fluid so rapidly that blood cells would have been carried right
across capillary membranes, resulting in bloody flux, I might
have lost consciousness from the blood pressure decrease, etc.
Now, I am thinking that when each of you look back on your
own experiences you will realize that pretty much all of you who
clearly recall vaccines will remember having experiences like I
had with the flu vaccines, but very few of you have been
through the allergic response.
***** IT IS THE SAME WITH FERRETS. *****
Like us, they WILL be tired and feeling a bit crummy after a
vaccine that works.
The tricks are to stay long enough in the hospital that MOST
reactions can be caught and to monitor them afterward.
As with humans, for ferrets having anaphylactic reactions,
Epinephrine is THE key med to give for an anaphylactic reaction.
There are certainly other things to do: fluids to maintain blood
pressure, steroids (or in the case of those who can not have
steroids for medical reasons a double dose of Singulair is
sometimes an off-label approach for humans) to reduce lung
involvement (and in the case of steroids also do more),
antihistamines to reduce the circulating histamine, etc.
Would I vaccinate a ferret shortly before a major procedure? No.
That is for the same reason that I would not have a major
procedure shortly after being ill enough that my immune system
had been unusually active.
Do I think that having a vaccination played a role in what
happened with your ferret? I doubt it.
Steve and I have had ferrets for over a quarter century, and our
vets trust us well enough that we have had full set-ups here,
including IV pumps for some of our ferrets, and Steve and I
sleeping in shifts, yet when they have had stomach surgery we
always left them in a monitored hospital setting for at least 2 days
and on IV for at least a day.
Why?
Because stomach surgery is just too prone to having problems
afterward. We have been through a half dozen of those and
several small intestinal surgeries. (All but one were in two
ferrets who had congenital deformities. The one who wasn't had
a "fur" ball that turned out to by mostly fake sheep's fleece so
we stopped using any bedding with that fabric exposed.)
Once you have seen Canine Distemper in even one animal (let
alone ripping through a household) you value the vaccines.
Let's face it, seeing what any disease that grows in the brain can
do to someone you love is truly horrid.
By the time the symptoms are seen it is usually too late for
vaccinating the others to save many or any, as per some old studies on
the behavior of canine distemper which are quoted in _Biology and
Diseases of the Ferret_. The exception is a just introduced animal
who was beforehand incubating the disease for a while so symptoms
showed up sooner than they would otherwise -- as has happened
a few times through the years in shelters.
Besides the precautions you mentioned do you leave your shoes
outside? Do all of your guests? Tracking in CDV is one way to
infect your ferrets.
Have you ever had an outside animal get in? That is one way to
spread either canine distemper virus or rabies virus.
Even those animals who have been vaccinated but not in a while
may not have enough protection to avoid brain damage even when
they survive. That is why it is so important to get the titer studies
done in ferrets and then the challenge studies to know what levels
give HEALTHY ferrets ENOUGH protection to avoid any damage.
Personally, we look forward to them having CD Vaccines less
frequently ONCE THE SAFE TIMING IS KNOWN.
DO remember that the figures could easily differ for ferrets who are
not healthy.
So, what do we personally do (and these are NOT recommendations
-- just what we have chosen to do ourselves and others will
hopefully read enough to make their own choices based on enough
hard information specific to vaccines, the diseases, and ferrets.
We do not vaccinate ferrets who have serious illnesses that are not
under control with treatment, for example, lymphoma. We do not
vaccinate shortly before a major procedure or shortly after. We do not
vaccinate an INDIVIDUAL with the specific vaccine which has caused a
definite anaphylactic reaction, and if an INDIVIDUAL has reacted in that
way to two vaccines we simply never vaccinate that ferret again (and
then used shoes all live outside and we limit how many shoes we use
to avoid losing too many to weather damage) but we do continue to
vaccinate the others. Not only does vaccinating the others protect
them, but in a study (same text mentioned before) vaccinating most
means that the virus can not as easily spread to the unvaccinated
ferrets.
It is NOT possible to predict which individuals who had smaller
reactions will have larger ones the next time.
We always wait at the hospital and we let the vet choose the pre-
vaccination meds.
We keep in mind that Fervac-D had a much worse reaction rate than
what exists now. Fervac-D is no longer sold.
Steve and prefer to have our ferrets get the canine distemper vaccines
about 18 months apart. We figure that any increased risk is probably
low with that timing (and may be low with a longer timing but without
enough data we prefer to be cautious). I am NOT recommending that,
just saying this is what we have personally chosen. We get the rabies
vaccine annually. The reaction rate for the rabies vaccine, BTW is lower
than that for the canine distemper vaccines.
If vaccine has not been stored properly at a distributor or in transport,
or at the hospital then it is more likely to cause illness in ferrets, and
it really does make sense for batches to be reported when that happens.
During the time that we have had ferrets I guess that we have had maybe
a half dozen who reacted. We have not had a reaction since we stopped
using Fervac-D in our crew. Of the ones who reacted we had two who
were allergic to the rabies vaccine and to at least one canine distemper
vaccine. One was allergic to Galaxy first and then to Fervac. One was
allergic just to Galaxy. The other two were allergic to Fervac alone.
Although a few others have encountered allergic reactions to Purevax
(anything with proteins in it can trigger allergic reactions -- even foods
cause reactions only a few individuals) we personally have not.
Again, be very, very, very informed about canine distemper and rabies
before deciding to not vaccinate, and it doesn't hurt to at least see a
video of what those diseases do to critters. I have seen canine distemper
in a friend's adopted dog when I was young adult, and saw her change
completely overnight into a violent animal. She had been vaccinated
but not soon enough after exposure in an animal pound. I have seen
rabies in a small brown bat, a species I have loved working with in the
past and which is normally intelligent, affectionate, trusting, and docile.
Normally, an anaphylactic reaction can be treated and survived without
damage when care is gotten soon enough. There are exceptions and I
am saddened by them, but they are not the majority. Those diseases are
a different matter. They *normally* kill and do so horribly.
So, we vaccinate -- with a few specific exceptions.
It doesn't have to be an either-or question, and where health is concerned
it is normal to tailor approaches to the needs of the individual.
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
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