From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2008-03-14 17:31:05 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Distemper in Minnesota ?
To: ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com
While we wait for author's permission to post the letter about
possible canine distemper in a ferret with symptoms first appearing 2
weeks after coming home from the pet store chain in MN here is some
basic info which was sent to liz to send on to the person (but this
version is cleaned up since I wanted to get that one out fast, because
some things are not relevant to this post, and since I learned from
the past vet posts just as they and most here will):
Distemper could alternatively have been picked up at the distribution
center, from an animal or person's clothing while in transit, from an
employee, from an infected animal who entered the store, or from a
customer with the disease on his or her shoes or clothing, so there
are multiple possible routes of infection. So, it is wise to be aware
of all possible routes, and they really should be included in a post
-- not only to be fair but to EDUCATE.
I've actually seen a cage-cleaner from a a regional humane shelter go
to pet stores IN HIS WORK CLOTHING AFTER A SHIFT! Really... Foolish,
right? Okay, way worse than foolish. If someone who should know
better has done it, imagine the people who don't know better -- folks
who don't vaccinate and don't understand viral shedding and that CDV
can be shed before symptoms show. Heck, it could even come in from
someone who trod in contamination and never knew it.
How did they do the aging? Size won't work; it is affected by illness
and other factors. Behavior is affected by emotional and health
factors. The sole reliable way to age a kit who is starting to get
adult teeth until all are erupted is dental:
Here are the usual approximate eruption ages of permanent teeth (when
they first start to arrive) as per _Biology and Diseases of the
Ferret_:
Day 50 (around 7 weeks of age): both upper and lower canines, and
the lower molar 1
Day 53 (around 7 and 1/2 weeks of age): upper molar 1
Day 60 (around 8 and 1/2 weeks): upper premolars 2-4, lower premolar 2
Day 67 (around 9 and 1/2 weeks): lower premolar 3
Day 74 (around 10 and 1/2 weeks): lower premolar 4 and molar 2
Here is what the various teeth are: The incisors are at the very
front and they are single rooted simple teeth. Moving just behind
them in any quadrant you find the canine which is single and deeply
rooted, long and spear-looking. Just behind that are the premolars.
Don't let the numbers confuse you; they reflect ancestral mammalian
numbers and not every animal species has all of them. For instance
some species might have P3 and P4 but totally lack P1 and P2.
Premolars are more complex than the teeth before them in the mouth
but are not as broad or complex as molars. Molars are the back cheek
teeth. The carnassals are modified premolars and molars used for
slicing and are the teeth that say that meat eating is done. (Despite
what many folks mistakenly think quite a number of vegetarian
mammals have spear like canine teeth which are as useful for display
and defensive fighting as they are for killing or grabbing prey.)
CDV is a terrible, terrible illness and I am so sorry that this is
occurring, no matter what the route was. If I recall the timing of
the virus this kit would have been infected shortly before or after
purchase (and remember that exposure is usually accidental and very
commonly unknown) because I think there are about two weeks before
symptoms show, but I'll have to check references to be sure. (See the
final carried past post from Dr. Williams below to learn that is not
always the case.) I do know that it has been transmitted by some of
the older vaccines (no longer used as far as I know) grown in chicken
eggs (page 310 of _Biology and Diseases of the Ferret_)and by vaccine
grown in ferret tissue (also something which I think has stopped, but
I don't know for sure which is why it is so important to use the right
vaccines -- see http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG13064 ).
So, the possibilities include that:
1. someone used the wrong vaccine
or
2. there was a mislabeled vaccine
or
3. the vaccine timing was such that the ferret was left without
protection and then an exposure occurred
or
4. this is one of the very rare cases in which the vaccine did not
work for unknown reasons (usually immune suppression) and then
exposure occurred
We were just at our vet a few days ago and no mention was made about
CDV in ferret kits showing up at their hospital (central NJ); we would
have heard about that sort of thing.
ALL the past posts quoted below are from Dr. Bruce Williams since he
is also a world-renowned ferret expert veterinary pathologist and I
think he has sent in the most on this topic.
Okay, the maternal antibody duration is different than I thought:
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG1573
> The maternal antibodies of any note, IgM and IgG against distemper
> (and other diseases), are passed on only during the first 24 hours.
> The kit's stomach is programmed not to digest this protein, but to
> absorb it directly across the wall into the bloodstream but for 24
> hours only. After this, a small amount of a weak antibody known as
> IgA will continue to be passed in the milk and line the kits
> stomach, but it really poses minimal defense against distemper.
> After 24 -48 hours, the acid secretion in the kits stomach kicks in,
> and it will treat maternal antibodies like any other protein and
> digest it.
>
> This is why: a) nursing in the first 24 hours is critical (all the
> maternal antibodies are passed in the thick colostrum in the first
> 24 hours) and why b) colostrum given after 24 hours provides no
> protection.
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG1572
> Generally maternal antibody begins to wane about 4-5 weeks, but
> there is still considerable protection at 6 weks. However, remember
> that each vaccine gives a boost to the immune protection. So the way
> vaccinations work is baby gets antibodies in milk during first 24
> hours (and minimal amounts therafter of a different, less effective
> type.) It wanes, wanes, wanes, then BOOM, at 6 weeks, the vaccine
> comes, the ferret is exposed to the virus, and the immune response
> goes higher than ever before. But as the six-week old really doesn't
> have a very effective immune system yet, it wanes, wanes, and wanes.
> So at 9 weeks we give another and BOOM! the immune response is
> better than it was after the first one. But it wanes, wanes wanes,
> and so at 11-12 weeks, we give another and BOOM and so on at 16 weeks.
>
> Many ferrets only get three, so it isn't quite as strong at the end,
> but it generally does the trick very well. Each vaccine boosts the
> memory and protection of the immune system, taking it to new heights.
>
> They why do adults only get two? Well, it has to do with the
> maturity and efficiency of the immune system. Their immune system
> can do much more with a vaccine, so they don't need as many.
> However, if a adult ferret has NEVER received any shots, I have no
> qualms about recommending a three shot series. But many adults have
> had at least that first introduction as a 6 week old, so two is
> usually the standard.
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG953
> Yes - this was about seven years ago - the particular company had a
> number of problems with their products - this one caused distemper
> in dogs and of course, their ferrets. Killed all the ferrets, most
> of the puppies, and left some adults in poor shape.
>
>
>
> Author wrote:
> > Was it one of the canine combo vaccines that you have seen cause
> > clinical disease in ferrets?
> > Marc Kramer, DVM
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG948
> Post-vaccine encephalitis, while possible, is a very difficult
> disease to prove without biopsy or autopsy material. while the time
> frame between vaccination and the onset of these signs might be
> suspicious, there has not been any definitive testing (spinal tap)
> or autopsy material to support this claim. the signs of hindlimb
> weakness and falling to the right are very non-specific, and do not
> even say encephalitis. There should be definite symptoms that
> indicate disease in the brain (circling, nystagmus, cranial nerve
> deficits, seizures) rather than those affecting the hind legs.
>
> Post-vaccinal encephalitis generally occurs in batches, and with
> distemper, you should have fairly severe signs. I can't really say
> what a "distemper survivor" looks like, as I have never seen a
> ferret that survived it. Dogs may, and often go on to live with many
> years with mild continuing signs (such as "chewing gum fits"), but
> you can't really extrapolate from that.
>
> While I know that ferrets have a number of problems associated with
> vaccines, and I have seen true cases of vaccine induced distemper in
> ferrets (which kills the ferrets just as dead as the real thing), I
> am not sure that there is enough evidence to put your little guy in
> this category.
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG13194
> Tthis is a very difficult question to answer. In previously
> vaccinated dogs, distemper vaccines may show beneficial effects in
> as little as 72 hours - but that is usually in animals which have had
> a full series of boosters and probably a couple of additional yearly
> shots.
>
> Luckily, the possibility of transmission with this set of
> circumstances are highly remote.
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG12304
includes this relevant comment:
> A pet store is a great place to
> get distemper if you don't already have it...
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG11738
> I hate to harp on this one note, but I am wondering why your vet
> doesn't biopsy the pads, periocular skin, or chin. The use of
> antibiotics may result in temporary improvement in distemper cases,
> as they support an immunesuppressed animal fight bacterial infection,
> but as other people have already pointed out, this is an animal that
> may be shedding virus into the environment. Each time this ferret
> comes into the vet clinic, it is a potential source of infection for
> other ferrets (especially kits), puppies, etc.
>
> There have been enough signs which are consistent with the most dread
> disease in ferrets to warrant more definitive diagnostics and I am at
> a loss why your vet is not pursuing them more aggressively. This is
> not a disease that you take a "wait and see" attitude with.
> Distemper is one that you want to get that negative biopsy report
> back as quickly as possible (fingers crossed.)
WHEW! I DON'T HAVE TO DIG IN THE VET TEXTS OR EVEN LOOK BEYOND DR.
WILLIAMS' PAST POSTS BECAUSE HERE IS THE TIMING ANSWER:
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YG8154
> Many cases of distemper become evident in 13 days, but not all. Non-
> ferret adapted strains may take up to 45 days to become evident based
> on clinical signs. Antibody titers will generally show exposure
> within 2-4 weeks, but are often not cost effective.
>
> I would be very careful taking ferrets from someone with a history of
> distemper in the facility, in spite of all assurances, and would
> suggest that a quarantine run the full 45 days. Also, I would
> strongly recommend that you check into the new Merial Purevax vaccine
> for your four old-timers, epsecially in light of this new development.
>
> Ultraviolet lights in my experience are not especially effective in
> decreasing pathogens, and many bacteria and viruses in facilities
> tend to hide in moist cracks and crevices, away from their effects.
> Routine disinfection of bowls, cages, etc. with a virucidal cleaner
> such as Parvocide or Rocal will help; however the best advice is that
> people who rescue raccoons stick to raccoons. The only case of
> rabies in a mustelid that I ever saw (it was actually a mink, not a
> ferret) was contracted from wild raccoons. Using the same cages for
> raccoons and ferrets (at different times of course) is a risky
> business.
>
> With kindest regards,
>
> Bruce Williams, DVM
>
There are more, but I think that covers everything.
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/fhc/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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