From:
Sukie Crandall
Date: 2010-08-10 04:02:57 UTC
Subject: [ferrethealth] Re: Vets and others,PLEASE answer if you can???? E Coli
To: fhl <ferrethealth@yahoogroups.com>
Hopefully those with more information than I will be
able to answer you, Sandra.
I've run into a bit more info:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20585113
In humans some of the complications from shiga toxins
actually increase with the use of antibiotics (but a
person needs to fask if those individuals were already sicker),
and the primary treatment for this disease which kills many who
get it and leaves many others with permanent damage is
HYDRATION, HYDRATION AND MORE HYDRATION.
IV is the ferrets' dear friend. So are sub-cu fluids. So is
loads and loads and loads of drinking water. (Yes, I did a
lot of reading today and expect to do more.) My suspicion
is that using antibiotics is a decision made based on what
is going wrong with the individual patient (which complications
and so forth) in humans but others will know more.
> Curr Opin Gastroenterol. 2008 Jan;24(1):38-47.
> Pathogenesis and treatment of Shiga toxin-producing
> Escherichia coli infections.
includes
>> Fifteen percent of patients infected with E. coli O157:H7
>> progress to hemolytic uremic syndrome, but this figure
>> may reach 50% if antibiotics are used.
but a person has to wonder if the ones getting antibiotics are
already sicker.
I do not know if meds like Procrit or Epogen could help at all,
nor if things that are used as gentle clot promotors in humans
(like vitamin K) may be of help. Ask the treating vet.
BTW, grapeseed reduces clotting in a related member of
Carnivora so may be a bad choice for that reason and well
as the aforementioned concern (sent to Sandra for her vet
after someone suggested it):
http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/132/12/3592
Here is a FREE JOURNAL ARTICLE ON THE TYPES
OF HEMOLYTIC E.COLI FOUND IN FERRETS:
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/12/5904?view=long&pmid=15583337
also found at
http://jcm.asm.org/cgi/reprint/42/12/5904
and
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC535218/?tool=pubmed
Kidney woes in ferrets even when shiga toxin problems are survived:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11865409
Deaths in BFFs from E. coli:
http://www.jwildlifedis.org/cgi/reprint/37/3/617
Bleach all litter pots and then dry them throughly.
I don't know if the meds Epogen or Procrit would help
in this situation. Transfusion might temporarily and
perhaps that would be enough.
Vitamin K is mild clot promoter in humans but I don't
know if it has veterinary uses, and I don't know if
increasing clotting would help...
Hydration comes up everywhere I look as the primary
thing to do with shiga toxin.
This resource has a lot of human info:
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Toxins/Verotox.html
includes:
> The toxin acts on the lining of the blood vessels, the
> vascular endothelium...The vascular endothelium has
> to continually renew itself, so this killing of cells leads to
> a breakdown of the lining and to hemorrhage. The first
> response is commonly a bloody diarrhea. This is because
> Shiga toxin is usually taken in with contaminated food or water.
...
>
> The toxin is effective against small blood vessels, such as found
> in the digestive tract, the kidney, and lungs, but not against
> large vessels such as the arteries or major veins. A specific target
> for the toxin appears to the vascular endothelium of the glomerulus.
> This is the filtering structure that is a key to the function of the
> kidney. Destroying these structures leads to kidney failure and
> the development of the often deadly and frequently debilitating
> hemolytic uremic syndrome. Food poisoning with Shiga toxin often
> also has effects on the lungs and the nervous system.
>
and
> Supportive Care
> Maintain fluid and electrolytes levels, monitor and support kidney
> function
so I.V. and other supportive kidney approaches and subcu fluids for
your ones who are not getting IV, plus lots and lots of fluids to drink
and careful cleaning at home wherever they go to the bathroom:
> Inactivation
> Steam treatment, oxidizing agents such as bleach and reactive
> sterilants such as glutaraldehyde.
Basically, I am afraid that you are up against something likely to
take a high toll and beyond hydration there is little that you can
do which has proven benefits when cases are looked at in general
if this is really what is going on. I'm so very, very sorry to not have
better news for you.
Now, there normally are typical E. coli strains to be found in ferrets,
so it pays to have one of the best labs look at specimens because
there are some species sizes of coccidia (which also cause
potentially fatal intestinal bleeding) that too many labs just
don't look for (and I do know of homes and shelters with many
ferrets lost because of the failure of other labs to look for the
smaller types of coccidia).
Recommended:
http://www.ferrethealth.msu.edu/
or this one:
http://www.zoopath.com/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/YPG590
On a magnification too many labs and vet hospitals do
NOT use for ferrets:
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/FHL9021
More of coccidia:
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/FHL9527
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/FHL9496
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/SG17961
This last bit is going to sound harsh but I've been corresponding
with Sandy and might have a bit of an idea what they are facing:
It might pay, given how many are ill now and how
severely for some, and given that funds have to be
used carefully to ask the treating vet about doing
triage, with those who may not have a chance not
being placed before those who do who could have
a chance, IF this really is shiga toxin from E. coli.
Sukie (not a vet)
Recommended ferret health links:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/ferrethealth/
http://ferrethealth.org/archive/
http://www.afip.org/ferrets/index.html
http://www.miamiferret.org/
http://www.ferrethealth.msu.edu/
http://www.ferretcongress.org/
http://www.trifl.org/index.shtml
http://homepage.mac.com/sukie/sukiesferretlinks.html
all ferret topics:
http://listserv.ferretmailinglist.org/archives/ferret-search.html
"All hail the procrastinators for they shall rule the world tomorrow."
(2010, Steve Crandall)
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